I have been coming to the Fremont Fair for decades. It is still one of my favorite fairs to visit every year. My agenda is likely different from many folks. I don't come on Saturday anymore since everyone is there for the Solstice parade. It is borderline insane for those who drive there and need to find parking. My routine: - I arrive midday on Sunday, typically about 3pm. This gives me three hours at the fair. Many folks are beginning to leave by then. Parking is slightly easier to find even if we need to loop a time or two. - Visit the art cars. This is my absolute favorite at the Fremont Fair. They are insanely fun. My favorite is from 10+ years ago. A sedan is fully covered with Big Mouth Billy Bass with lobsters on top that are synced up to sing Bohemian Rhapsody. I am sure I have a video somewhere. - Stroll the many blocks of the fair, exploring the booths. I go to many fairs. I recognize most vendors going to the same fairs. Fremont Fair is still able to surprise me with new-to-me booths. It is why I return year after year. - Look for free swags. Many community booths give free swags. I look for the cute items that a child might like so I can give those swags to teachers as classroom rewards. - Free food sampling - We enjoy buying new-to-us foods. - Skip the food booths, mostly. Once upon a time, food booths were the source to find unusual eats or to have a small bite. We stop eating from food booths when they became more expensive than going to a restaurant. Sorry, not sorry. We support the local restaurants in the neighborhood instead. We still look, but it is uncommon for us to find something we don't already know. - When all is done, take a stroll along ship canal. It is both peaceful (for us) and chaotic (for the vendors packing up and/or taking down their booths). It is part entertainment seeing the staff direct traffic. For this year's fair, the highlight is once again the art cars with the spaceship car. Inter Milan gave away blue ice cream, while a Raspados Del Sur gave away their excess fruits after the fair ended. It was awesome! Of course, I bought items and enjoyed music from the stages, too. read more

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Decided come check this out as it was a very nice day and only thinking it would be just a bigger version of the usual Fremont Market and oh it is! and much more! It is also known as the Seattle Solstice weekend fair. The usual set up of vendors is present but there's like 4+ blocks of food vendors/trucks, live music and guest vendors selling all their crafts and wares. A few activities for the little ones including face painting, balloon making and one of those huge slides. The first thing I checked out were the art cars, another thing unique to the fair. These art car enthusiasts come out every year and show off their creations. I even chatted with one of them. A very interesting and unique hobby indeed I especially liked the chalk van, which had a bucket of chalk where you could write on the van. Another one was a truck that looked like it was straight out of Mad Max or Twisted Metal. There were not one, two but 3 stages of musical acts which was cool. My favorites were Elevator Operator and Miles Ebony and the Deep Cuts. I got me cocktail from the 'beer garden' and El Koreano (separate review) and had a good time. A nice way to spend some of the day. read more

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- too many people and food is overpriced - I swear everyone in Seattle is here!!! We spent maybe 30 minutes trying to find a parking spot, but we can't. We ended up parking on the street nearly 10 blocks north (20 min walk) from the fair. Everyone was waiting for the parade, so it was extremely difficult to get to the fair as the road is nearly completely blocked. It was quite difficult to walk as there are traffic everywhere. I'd recommend avoiding the parade area if you aren't interested in it like we were. The food were super overpriced.. $15.44 for 8 pieces of takoyaki and $20 for sushi burrito... Not to mention the takoyaki is lacking the nori powder (seaweed powder). It surprised me that the food tasted like they were made by amateurs, but I guess my expectations were too high. Simply put, the best way to do this is to arrive early to find a parking spot, eat at a local restaurant, check out the shops then head home. Oh, did I mention a school is charging $50 for their park spots? *Smh* I actually want to go for sunday's dog parade, but my husband isn't interested :3 read more

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This is one Summer Solstice Fair you do not want to miss! Multiple Streets were closed for the weekend and the amount of activities and vendors was impressive! We saw a giant row of slides kids were going down and it reminded me of old carnival days sliding down on potato sacks. There were so many cool activities for kids and adults! There was even an axe throwing trailor. There was certainly lots to see and I did not expect to have walked so much but luckily the sun did show up for this parade and the day was beautiful. Of course my favorite was the variety of food choices. Make sure to always get to fairs early enough to try their most popuar dishes! They will run out of course and thats a good thing! We luckily were able to try some amazing Philiipino Food, pancit, pork skewers, and lumpia. Yum yum yum! The line for this place was definitely the longest and it was so good! There was a nice paved trail on the side for bikes to ride on and the grassy sides had tables where people could enjoy the food. We sat along the grassy river side and enjoyed a beautiful view of the river. It was a great spot for the fair plus with the many recycling stations, everything was very clean. We also came the day of the dog parade! So many more dogs showed up than I would have thought. The dogs came dressed up in their best for the parade and people loved watching them enjoy the spotlight. Our dog wasn't in the parade but she made tons of friends and received so much attention from kids walking around. This was a lot of fun for the pups. Afterward we enjoyed a stroll through the shops in the area and even got the best gelato down the street! All in all a great time. read more

Fremont Fair - Festivals Near Me - Seattle, Washington

The Fremont Fair is a claustrophobic's worst nightmare. No, I am not one. But I certainly don't like being trapped amongst a herd of people when I am simply just trying to get down the street. This what you can anticipate if you attend the immensely popular Fremont Solstice Parade. This year's version was filled with inconvenience. There was a ton of construction just about everywhere I went. Downtown and South Lake Union specifically. And why do you have to close 520 so often in the summer? Why can't the DOT do this work during the part of the year in which we could care less? The traffic to Fremont was terrible. Because the parade route is where Metro and cars usually come through, the Fremont Bridge was closed off to traffic. Traffic had to divert elsewhere which made it really slow getting here. The bus I took was basically crawling on Westlake. Being a late arrival to Fremont, it was pretty difficult finding a good spot to watch the parade. Caught a few glimpses of some interesting floats and parade marchers. The parade in my opinion is the best part of the Fremont Fair. The other attractions however are not worth really venturing to. All I could see really was just tons of vendors selling their wares like the usual Sunday Market in Fremont. While other neighborhoods like West Seattle and Ballard holds events similar to the one in Fremont, I feel like neighborhood businesses are more involved with it. In summary, if you can deal with the crowds then the parade is worth attending for its quirky factor. But I find that there are better Seattle neighborhood fairs than this one. I feel that if you take the parade out of the equation, it is lacking in local flavor. read more

It's the place you want to be on the second weekend of June in Seattle. Freaks everywhere, but that's Fremont normally. Every summer the annual The Fremont Fair & The Summer Solstice parade lets us celebrate the arrival of summer. Or what THE GODS grant us for summer. Every form of life shows up ( Vendors, freaks , geek's and locals) to gather in celebration & decadence! This gathering has something for everyone from voyeurism, drinking, shopping, protesting or watching the parade it's very entertaining for all! Should you be coming for the parade, I'd arrive early to secure a location. The benefit is a front row view of freak show central the naked cyclists who kick off the parade. See ya in 2015! read more

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Celebrate summer at the Fremont Solstice Fair, an event known primarily for its elaborately painted (and sometimes just wild 'n' free) nude bicyclists--but also offering tons of food, crafts, activities, performances, great people-watching, and a beer garden. The Solstice Fair is one of the premiere summer activities in Seattle. The annual Fremont Solstice Fair, a beloved Mardi-Gras style festival. Founded in 1972, the Fremont Solstice Fair is one of Seattle's most beloved neighborhood street festivals, featuring a weekend of eclectic activities that celebrate the quirky community of Fremont, the self-proclaimed "center of the universe." Parking in the festival area is extremely limited and some streets are closed for the event. Getting there by foot, bike or bus is suggested. All events are free, with donations appreciated; Fremont Arts Council passes the big Green Hat for donations during the parade and tip jars at the beer gardens and fair information stations benefit the fair and local charities. read more

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I typically attend the Fremont Fair on Sunday. That way, I can spend Saturday focused on the Solstice Parade because honestly, it's a bit too much for me to handle all in one day. I go to the Fremont Fair each year and again, Sunday always seems like a different vibe to me. Although there still are remnants of naked folk, it's a lot less compared to Saturday (if that's a concern for you; I don't care). Vendors - There are some of the vendors that participate in Fremont Sunday Market but there are tons more who just come in for the fair. Everything from leather goods to pillows to bubbles, there's a wide range of amusement for everyone. Location - I like that the Fair spreads out over a few streets. That allows for people to move around a bit better. Also, one of my favorite things to do is walk a little further down the water to have a little peace and quiet under the shade while I watch the boats go by. Transportation - I've heard a lot of complaints about this. Honestly, a little research goes a long way. If you're looking to park right at the Fair, good luck. However, if you even drive by a week before to get an idea of where to park (if driving) then you're much better off. In terms of buses, this year was kind of a problem on Saturday with the Rock N' Roll Marathon in the Morning then the Parade in the afternoon. I kept recommending that folks bike in (great path, except a little dicey with walkers) or use one of the MANY car options. People said taxis wouldn't go down there. Okay. Try Uber, car2go, Sidecar, Lyft, etc. Bottom line - I've been to the fair on Saturday and Sunday - GO ON SUNDAY. If you're going to the Solstice Parade, try a location further down the road (it goes all the way to Gas Works, you don't have to be at the beginning to enjoy yourself). Food - The typical fair food pervades the Fair. Each year, there may be a food truck or two but really, it's the usual suspects you find at most fairs. I usually don't eat there. Toilets - Honey Buckets are onsite and remember that some locations are busier than others. Have a look when you get there if you have to use them. You can try businesses but they are all fairly busy as well. One of my favorite things about the Fair are the cars. A car with dentures on them? Awesome. How about one with magnets? Equally awesome. It's fun to look at how others express their creativity with their wheels. There is a kids slide and some other minimal kids activities. I don't recommend these. They are overpriced and really, you would do better to take your kid for drop in at Pump It Up. Go on Sunday. That is all. read more

Fremont Fair - 2013 - Festivals Near Me - Seattle, Washington

I don't understand why people are complaining about the Fair being crowded, loud and a little dirty. That comes with the territory of any street fair and you know what you're getting yourself into. If that's not your cup of tea, then avoid Fremont for the weekend. Problem solved, no more complaints. Personally, I had a blast. The Fair only happens once a year, and it's a very Seattle sort of event, so it's worth putting up with crowds for. Yes, there are naked people on bikes, hippies selling organic granola and Burners soliciting money so they can get to the playa. There are also lots of awesome vendors selling anything from pottery to jewelry to clothing to journals made out of old books, a huge food court with loads of options, a beer garden, several music stages and an art car show. There was a ton of vendors this year, most of whom stayed around into the early evening, so even though we overslept and missed the parade, we still had plenty of time to wander the streets and people-watch. It's good times, and haters to the left. read more

This is my 2nd year coming to Fremont Solstice Fair. Its been about the same both years, I think this year was a little more unique especially with the nakedness and hairyness. But its ok, I dont mind it. Whatever. Fremont isnt the biggest area but during the fair, there's all kinds of street vendors, food vendors, drink stands, some family friendly games for kids, restaurants & bars open up their doors and offer specials, beer gardens, performance stages, also some VIP-ish places hosted by a particular liquor brand and all that all that! Its nice to walk around and check things out for a few hours and grab some food and sit over by the water. Definitely dont drive here, take the bus.....actually walking or riding your bike is the easiest way in & out of here. read more

The food options were your typical overpriced options you would find at a fair. I didn't see the food trucks that were away from the main part of the fair until after I ate a bad plate of nachos. Lots of booths selling arts and crafts. Several booths had water available for our puppy which was nice. The parade was interesting, good to see once. Not for kids though! There is a lot of naked people on bikes to start off the parade. Some of the floats were cool, a lot of them confusing. read more

I look forward to the Fremont fair w/ Solstice Parade every year although it does not change much year to year and can get claustrophobicly crowded on Sat. But it still is the best buck you'll ever spend for a good cause to people watch and shop for local art. It reminds me of the ol May Day Festivals I used to attend in Minneapolis for Spring. There just is something about a yearly tradition like this one.. Since living in Seattle, now I feel like summer cannot arrive until Naked Solstice Bicycles, & paper mache floats pass by.. oh and of course, many fair foods consumed. Let your freak flag fly! People dress however they want here and there's always Beer gardens, bands, Art Cars, Super Slide, Art vendors, Naked painted people, chalk drawing, Ballard Brothers Salmon, corn on a stick and free sample booths. (Which BTW the samples were in full force, samples of Theo chocolate, Cliff, Starbucks and Kashi bags.) I always try to buy some art and that was made easy this year since "I Heart Rummage" set up shop this year too. Cool stuff. Tip: Go on Sunday for less crowds. See you next year, I wouldn't miss it! read more

Local food and art! "Fair" prices, but worth every penny! I have a blast every year. read more

Fremont Fair - Festivals Near Me - Seattle, Washington

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I must say, I've never seen such a site as the Solstice Fair. It seems this gathering gave all comers carte blanche to let it all hang out... Sometimes very literally. Arts and crafts, street performers, excellent food trucks, and lots of great music made this a great weekend experience. As someone who lives literally 300 feet from the parade route, my only complaint would be the traffic. It was a bear to get home or going out over this weekend. Best to just stay local and enjoy the festivities. Lesson learned for next year. read more

Fremont Fair - Festivals Near Me - Seattle, Washington

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Sigh. These events, i.e. anything that attract swaths of people, always play out so much better in my mind. Why do I continue to torture myself by going?? I know this, and this type of event is "some people's bag" or "right up their alley." For me, though, the crowds, the lack of personal space, the noise, and the lack of calmness gets me to feeling hectic and tired. Objectively, here's what you can expect--lots of vendors, selling things from hats, clothes, jewelry, stuff to live greener, food. We missed the parade, but did get to see some of the naked bike riders--very cool-if everyone paraded around naked, nakedness would be so much less taboo, and we'd probably be less schizophrenic about sex. If you like crowds, go, go, go. If you don't like crowds, my advice is no, no, no! read more

I live in Fremont and this past weekend I wanted to shoot myself every time I had to go outside. I like a drunken debauched street festival as much as the next person but the Fremont Fair has turned from a friendly happy fun place into something scary, obnoxious and a little sad. First off I couldn't park by my own apartment all weekend which was annoying. Not as annoying as trying to squeeze my little car down streets where others had illegally double-parked when they themselves couldn't find parking. Not as annoying as the really f---ed up bleeding girl dressed like Tinkerbell who wouldn't leave us alone at Ballroom on Saturday and then fell on her face on our table a few minutes later. Oh and someone got stabbed on Sunday night. I mean, I really can't be too surprised since I was ready for violence by the end of the weekend too. Maybe I'm just bitter. Fremont I love you and I love your naked bicycle tradition but this is all getting to be a little much. read more

Moving to Fremont from Memphis, TN during the Summer Solstice Fest was a shocker. I was happy to learn that this was not the norm, but the overall flavor of Fremont. My first summer experience was confusing, frustrating and just overwhelming. Three years later I am a Summer Solstice pro. I have hence moved out of Fremont, but I know that if I was a good seat for the parade, then I need to arrive early. I do not bother driving, I take the bus to the Fremont bridge or to the Aurora Bridge and then just walk across...easy! I have learned to pack a lunch and to just throw it into my backpack along with plenty of water, a hat and sun block. I leave my camera at home, because it is all about the experience. read more

We hit the beer garden at Gas Works after the Solstice Parade, and after an early afternoon buzz we decided to walk off our buzz in-route to the fair. After a few blocks we arrived at what looked like a Mongolian or Genghis Khan's campground. Two blocks of lined white tents with people pushing and shoving; not usually how I like to spend my Saturday afternoon, but we browsed around for half a block. That's all I could take. There's a lot of artsy fartsy crafty stuff. Most of the arts is homemade. I walked off with a couple Obama stickers and my sister bought some scented candles. A lavender and herb scented one for her and a forrest type of some sort for me. She says my room stinks. What's wrong with the smell of sex and maple syrup? I kid, my life is really that sorry. I used to...I still do sometimes, make duct tape wallets. Once in high school I made a duct tape back pack. I thought I was sooo cool. Well, now there's some chick selling duct tape wallets, messenger bags, and purses. They come in all colors. Back then there was only silver duct tape, so the duct tape wallets and backpacks never became more than just a hobby. With the new colors they're more appealing. 20 bucks for a wallet! 40 bucks for a purse! My sister wanted to buy one, but I says to her "put that benji back your purse kiddo."And she says "oh, but I must spend it homeslice." Then I says to her "no worries, I'll make one for you hommie!" When I decide to get help for my procrastination. A lot of cool stuff. Some free stuff. I picked up a free pamphlet with vegetarian recipes. There was some sort of juggling act, some churchy people asking me to repent, and two large ducks quacking up and down the fair. Just some of the FUN and EXCITING creatures you will see here! Not really, but it's bearable when you're buzzing. Great place to pick-up artsy stuff for your house, but too crowded to push the stroller or bike around. Watch your heels. Those soccer moms are always on a mission, and they don't give a fuck who stands in their way of their minivan. read more

2016 So much fun!!!! Festive, not too crowded. Wide variety of booths of festival food, popcorn samples, clothes for sale from lovely lands, jewelery. Everybody upbeat.. Seattle Times ZipCar. read more

Happened upon this fair while looking at the troll. Enjoyed a street performer (jewels the juggler, very very entertaining) and good food. Loved walking and seeing the goods for sale. Much better than other places I have been to. Parking around this area was super hard to find but we lucked out. Lots of people. No complaints. read more

I try to go to the Fremont Fair every year that I'm in town. Tons of arts and crafts vendor booths. Naked people in body paint. Lots of tasty food booths. A bunch of people and looky loos. This annual event seems to be a practice run for all of Seattle's Burning Man people. Go early to catch the summer solstice parade. Take Metro to avoid parking headaches. read more

My very favorite street fair in the Seattle area! Has a real hippie feeling. They have a summer solstice parade. But you must not mind seeing lots of naked people with lots of body paint. If you're kind of a prudish person this is not the place you want to be! This is more for free spirits who want to just let it all hang out once a year in an unconventional way and just have fun! Lots of food vendors. Typical street fair food. Lots of interesting commercial vendors. The prices are very reasonable. I like the uniqueness of this street fair and look forward to it all year. If you are a free spirit this is the place for you to come! read more

Fremont Fair - Part of the Solstice Street fair parade. Lots of nude bicyclist with body paint and outrageous floats and drill teams. - Festivals Near Me - Seattle, Washington

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Street Fairs depend on my mood. If I'm feeling sociable and ready to acknowledge my status as one of many ants on a hill, then I can go with the flow--especially if there is good music. On the other hand, I don't get too exicted about shopping and eating just for the sake of shopping and eating which is kind of what a street fair is. Been to the Fremont Fair once. Nice atmosphere and enough interesting people and decent music and wide array of food choices to have made it worthwhile. Likely won't go again, but if I was from Fremont I probably would as I'm sure I would have run into lots of people I knew. read more

This festival/ street fair is one not to be missed if In seattle during summer solstice. Lots of street vendors and live music set in fremont which is a fun, funky, youthful part of the city. Plenty of entertainment for adults, not too sure about kids....there are a lot of beer gardens and drinking is abound at this festival. It is celebrating summer after all. read more

We went late in the day, when it was easy to find parking and the only naked people remaining were the ones that shouldn'ta been in the first place, natch, but that made for bearable crowds and a nice stroll thru a sea of white tents full of arty t-shirts, pet rocks, and zumba skirts. Best thing about it was the art cars, with their silver babies, floppy dsks and elvi memorabilia. A fun mess. read more

OK ...any other year, I have been the last 6 years, and I would give this a 5 star rating but this year was full of disappointment. First, the traffic getting there was a nightmare! Thank goodness for my Waze app or I would probably still be stuck in it today. Then once parked and walking over to the fair there were just SO many people! You had to push your way though everyone to make head way anywhere. Since we were hungry we decided to try out some of the street food. $7.00 for a corn dog!! Umm...no thanks. There are many restaurants in the area will give me a way better deal for my money. I don't know how the street food vendors justify charging as much as they do when we are not a captive audience. We can go into any restaurant in the area and eat more for a lot less. Plus I can get a beer with my meal and not have to stand in a "Beer Garden". The kicker to all of this was the parade. I would have loved to have seen it but people were standing 8-9 people deep on all sections and both sides of the road. The worst part was people that got there hours earlier and were literally having a picnic on the side of the road, their blanket taking up the whole curb for about a 5x5 space. Really?! This should NOT be allowed at all. All in all I can only attribute all of the bad this year to them switching the parade from 10am to 3pm. It brought out the looky loos who otherwise would still be sleeping at 10am on the other years. Otherwise, everything else was as great as ever. Fun vendors selling some funky cool stuff, great street performers, and the art cars are always entertaining. So will I be back next year? Of course! I just hope they either move the parade back to 10am or I make a friend who lives there so I can stay the night on Friday and party all day with them while watching the parade from a balcony like some of the other lucky people on the parade route. read more

It's the best festival that occurs in the Fremont neighborhood every year. On Saturday is when everyone tends to go because of the traditional naked bike ride! It's a fun event to take tourists to because if that doesn't say Seattle then I don't know what it does! And on Saturday night is when famous artists come out to perform, which you will need to get separate tickets to. If you have to do everything with your dog like me, then go the following Sunday for the dog parade. There are plenty of vendors to check out and food stands, in addition to the Red Hook Brewery beer garden. read more

So disappointed in the 2022 Fremont Solstice Fair today. We LOVE this street fair - we've been visiting most every year for 3 decades. Our kids have grown up on it. I can't even begin to count the many wonderful crafts and the stand-out jewelry, the purses and backpacks and scarves, the local mustards and honeys and jams, the kitchen utensils and pottery, hats, clothes, knives, wooden pens, windchimes and garden art and stone soap dispensers we've purchased over the years... We went with a pocketful of cash today and seriously had nowhere to spend it - except on $10 mediocre corndogs. The vendors were scant, and I mean seriously scant - I'd say it was at about 25 percent capacity. I don't know whether the threat of rain scared all the vendors away (it didn't rain a drop today), or if it was COVID-related... or if there's a vending boycott happening - but jeez, this was not fun at all. Mostly, during our walk-through of the few vendor booths that existed, we were constantly approached by petitioners for one thing or another. There was nothing much to see, except naked old men waiting in line for organic kabobs. I mean, Utilikilts wasn't even there this year... or the booth with all the metal letters. No ornamented cars on display, unless we missed it? There were all of five artisan jewelry booths and, most disappointingly - no roasted corn on the cob, and the biggest heartbreak of all - no Kaleenka piroshkies! Such a letdown. Boo. read more

Corona?!? Why in the world with so many amazing breweries around Seattle and in the Pacific Northwest... Is this event sponsored by Corona!? And why, with all the amazing cuisine and food trucks around Seattle... Is there a McDonald's truck at this event!? The organizers should really make an attempt to keep this more local... what has happened!? read more

There are a lot of naked people here. If that's your thing, cool. I just want you to know. Its ok as far as Seattle festivals go. Not the best or the worst. But you know, naked people on bikes...not really my thing. read more

i'm confused; some ppl wrote reviews for the sunday market while others wrote reviews for the summer solstice festival. my review's for the festival (since i didn't go to the parade and the sunday market has its own category). um, if you don't like dogs then why did you offer your hand for them to lick? i had a great time this year. didn't make it to the parade but after having been to BM a few times i'm assuming i'm not missing much. my full review is on "fremont solstice parade 2009". all in all i had a great time! go SLUGs!! ;) read more

Fremont Fair is really something you experience once, unless you're a combination someone who hates driving, eats organically, gets a kick out of tarot, spends $30 on a sarong (seriously, if you live in Seattle, you will never wear it), was once or continues to be a hippie. Lots of free-thinkers, spiritual and calm people, so the vibe is cool. It's just not my first choice of things to do on a sunny weekend in Seattle. read more

The Fair has shrunk from its summer peak, but its still a pretty neat place to stroll through on a Sunday Fremont morning. I particularly reccommend the pizza baked in a clay oven that they transport there every Sunday. I also like some of the ceramic pieces you can find. Take a stroll through on your way to the PCC. read more

The center of the universe has one of the best street fairs around, starting with the wild Solstice Parade. The first time we went I had to explain the concept of body paint to my kids. They thought it was "cool". To me the crafts are the highlight of the fair and my kids ALWAYS buy me a birthday present here. Of course, I pretend not to see. Food, music, fun, it's a MUST for Seattleites. read more

My favorite fair but I rarely go anymore due to the crowds. Its gotten to the point where I hope it rains because all the recent transplants won't go outside for fear of melting. That leaves the fair wide open for those of us who remember when it was located in a parking lot and only took a hour to wander through. read more

Eh, it's okay. I did find some really cute soaps here and I love the candle selection. I'm not much for the hippy crowd so I didn't find the groups wandering around interesting, but there were some good deals on artwork here. Bring some hand sanitizer though, cause theres SO many dogs and wandering around, you WILL get your hand or legs licked by so many random dogs [it's kind of gross]. read more