BVM was very easy to work with for an initial purchase and then a few years later for a refi. We were referred to Penny and she absolutely knocked it out of the park on both transactions. She really knows her stuff and doesn't hesitate to give you honest feedback. Thanks again Penny. PS, those scratchers you sent were all losers. Keep trying!!!! lol read more

Dave Campagna was such a joy to work with! His energy and excitement for us during the process was so sweet and I enjoyed how he made videos to explain things thoroughly. He's the best and I highly recommend him! read more

Wish I could leave 10 stars for Rodney! Rodney assisted in my first home purchase in 2017 (we didn't qualify initially but he provided us with the steps to make it happen!). And for a refi in 2021. My loan has since been shifted to another servicer but to THIS VERY DAY, Rodney continues to answer questions & provide referrals/recommendations with anything home related... actually, once I reached out for auto loan brokers & he helped me with a stellar referral for that as well! Rodney at BVM is one of a kind. read more

Penny McClure is a ROCK STAR when it comes to lending. Her knowledge of the programs, rates, and what is needed when is outstanding. She always has our loan docs into title early and the transactions always go so smoothly. read more

Penny is the one and only Mortgage Consultant you will ever need. Her knowledge, efficiency, and compassion is genuinely unmatched. She meticulously guided my wife and I through our first home purchase and was always available to answer any outstanding questions or concerns we had throughout this purchase. She is and forever will be our loan mom! Thank you Penny for helping us close on our first home!! You truly are the greatest of all time!! read more

I cannot in good faith recommend the use of Big Valley Mortgage, specifically Scott Cooper (NMLS #220458). I started an FHA streamline with Scott Cooper over 8 months ago! Yes, it took this man the better part of a year to close a streamline refinance. I was lured in on one of those zero cash to close refinance ads Scott had mailed out to houses in the area. Sadly, Scott failed to complete my loan under the conditions he promised and my deal ended up changing MULTIPLE times. My cash to close went from $0, to $400~, to $700 to over $2000. I was informed on THREE separate occasions we were closing; those closing dates came and went, and not even a single peep from Scott. At one point Scott had failed to keep my loan active, so the lender cancelled and deleted my file entirely, yes, at month six we had to begin this process ALL OVER. During this entire process I maybe spoke to Scott on the phone a handful of times (he heavily preferred email/text) and he'd only ever call me to give me bad news. Right around month six, I received a call from him letting me know that the lender cancelled the file due to inactivity and we had to begin this WHOLE process over. I think, as most people would be I was furious, though, I stayed calm with Scott, but I demanded answers. Well Scott did not have any answers, and in-fact he yelled at me over the phone and tried to shift blame onto me. Scott was completely unremorseful of the situation. He simply did not care. In the midst of all this, we were able to track down the VPs phone number, so we gave him a call. While Buzz is clearly, a well-educated and professional person he remained distant from the actual issue. The position he took was more of a coworker who had no power to discipline Scott. However, we were told Scott was 'yelled' at... I will say, Buzz explained more about my refinance, and lending in general in two limited phone calls than Scott did in 8 months. I appreciated that. Finally, it is time to close. Documents have published and all I need to do is sign and wait the three days. But wait, my closing cost is showing as $2000~. Well that is not right. Last I spoke to Scott I was told $700~. I then received a phone call.. (if you guessed it was Scott, you win a gold star). Scott did indeed confirm the bad news, but said, "I was going to make it right, you have my word". He instructed me to sign the documents so the clock could start and we could close. In my gut, I knew better, but at this point 8 months later, I just wanted this over. I signed the documents, and soon found out that BVM was going to cut me a whopping $500 check. Well thanks, after eight months of hell, multiple cash to close changes, failed closing this what their way of "making it right". So I did what I thought was best, and I called a lawyer. I proceeded to pick up the phone and call Buzz. As mentioned earlier, Buzz is clearly well educated and knows how to talk to people. While the phone call was uneventful, I did ask them to up the amount. Buzz was a master at dancing his away around that, but ultimately he revealed two things. "Scott does a lot of business for us" and "We have no fiduciary duty to you". So that explains why Scott gets away with what he does, he makes them money so why possible harm that. My call with a lawyer were equally uneventful. Indicated that litigating this would take many years, and no one would likely come out on top. I should accept whatever offer and put this behind me. Big Valley Mortgage upped their offer to $750. I accepted. At the end of the day, I do have a lowered interest rate and a more manageable payment, even if it took eight months. I still sit here wondering if it was worth it, and if I should have pulled out of the refinance earlier. I am still not sure, and even if I did pull out I would have been in a worse situation. See CalHFA stopped doing refinances on FHA loans in the middle of mine, so if I left I would have been unable to achieve a refinance anytime soon. What am I sure of though? Scott Cooper lied to me, and took clear advantage of a new homeowner. I guess some lessons are learned the hard way. I will not be making this mistake again, and I hope you do not make the same mistake as me. Believe it or not, this is the abridged version. read more

We had a great experience on a refinance with Joe Chafey at BVM Roseville. We closed the refinance in less than 3 weeks from day of application! Joe was very communicative and explained all parts of the process thoroughly. He always responded within a couple hours by email or immediately by text. The online system they use was not super intuitive at first, but it did not take long to figure out and then I loved how easy it was to submit docs to Joe and to review and sign docs. We never had to fax, deliver, or use snail mail for docs at all! The escrow officer BVM used was pretty good, fast, and came up with quick and easy solutions to a couple minor issues. read more

Friendly, knowledgeable, responsive, dependable are just a few words to describe Jeff Silver My wife and I recently purchased our first home and I can say without Jeff, I don't think we would have been able to complete this major milestone. We had a tough deadline and were seeking to close shortly after the Thanksgiving holiday. Our sellers were pushing us to close ASAP as they were purchasing a new home themselves. We hit a few hurdles along the way and Jeff helped us work through them all. Jeff rushed our loan through and we ended up closing a day early. The thing that is great about Jeff is that he makes himself available anytime and always answers his phone... even while he was frying a turkey for the holiday! I can't recommend Jeff more and highly recommend requesting him as your loan agent if you are looking to purchase or refinance a home. read more

Run away. Run far away. I am right now in a hotel, paying $1400 a week, nearly 90 percent of my rent for a month because of these people. We were told we would close by October 13th, and we should give notice to our landlord. October 13th comes... Oops! We have a problem! Request after request for more and more information. More and more delays. We had our loan app shuffled off to another outfit, but no one told us! And now, we've not only lost our apartment, but we might lose the house we were trying to buy! The underwriters are crying about just following guidelines, but that's crap. If that's the case, why is this other outfit even talking to us? Seriously, do they really believe we're that Stupid? (I guess so. We did business with BVM.) Don't deal with these guys unless you're a multimillionaire, and can cover what it will ultimately cost you. They don't know VA loans as well as they claim, and it will cost you, not them! And they could care less. In the meantime, I now have to find someone who will rent us a house until I can get the mess THEY created cleared up. And I have to do it with $1400 less than I had before. To hell with these people! The least they could do is apologize! read more

I give them a big 5 star! This is the second time I have used them in 3 years and Jim Crawford is my hero! Thank you Jim and his team for making both of the transactions comfortable and with no stress! I get very nervous when it comes to my most valuable possession and putting the situation in their hands allowed me to relax while doing so. They were very accommodating to my needs and if I need a mortgage company again, I will be calling Jim. read more

Avoid working with Matthew Cole. The entire process with him has been nothing but a nightmare. He has not communicated well at all. We were supposed to close on our loan 27 Feb. Here we are, 5 March, and still have yet to close. They sat around and waited for the HOA for the complex to send over information about the flood insurance, but when my girlfriend called the HOA they told her his assistant just called and requested it and that they would send it over in ten minutes. Also, we thought we would be signing yesterday but as it turns out there was a "glitch" in their system that caused them to resubmit the documents which would take up to 72 hours to do. Rather than tell us that this had happened they said nothing. We learnt of this through our realtor. My advice is to just find a different mortgage company altogether. Save yourself the time and money. read more

Cynthia Farrell was AMAZING!! She helped us each step of the way. Kept us up to date as to the detail and stages we were in. She answered all my silly questions with knowledge and confidence and kindness. She is awesome in every way. Thank you so much for your assistance in our new home purchase. read more

Bill Wolfe and his assistant, Alicia, are absolutely amazing. I bought a short sale, and they had my loan approved and funded in just TWO WEEKS. I could not believe how quickly they worked to get me into my home. They are professional, responsive via phone AND email, and I am 100% satisfied with their services. Thank you Bill & Alicia! read more

I would definitely recommend working with Cindi Taylor to obtain your home loan!! I had the best experience with Cindi Taylor and Julie Thias, they worked alongside me throughout my entire transaction answering the many questions I had! This was my first home purchase and I couldn't be more grateful that they were able to make it happen for me. Thank you to the entire team!! read more

Krista Wylder is our new Mortgage Heroine. She not only got us the loan we needed, at a much better interest rate than we expected; she got us approved with the first lender we tried. Plus, she navigated us through a very complicated and gnarly house purchase that involved court orders,several parties' attorneys and a very tight timeline. At every step of the process she held our hand and patiently explained the mountain of required documentation (even when she had to explain it MANY times:). We basically would have gone crazy without her. And we got the deal through with everything we hoped for -- at $6K LESS than originally planned. 10 Stars if we could give it. read more

PRE-APPROVED What does this really mean? Coming from American Pacific Mortgage, DBA Big Valley Mortgage, Scott Cooper - NOTHING AT ALL. I do not purchase homes for a living; that said, I don't know all the requirements and regulations. That is why, I went to an experience Lender to handle and inform me. What ever you do DO NOT GO to American Pacific Mortgage, DBA Big Valley Mortgage. We were Pre-Approved and told our home loan would close by March 1, 2018. The Lender, Scott Cooper, even told the Sellers agent we would close in 21 days. We were so approved that the Lender in emails to me, said "we were good" to write a $5,000 check for our earnest money, write checks for our pest inspection and home inspection. Then 25 days later, informed by the Same Lender, More work on your credit needs to be done, and you lost the Lenders Credit (Our Closing Cost) and your interest rate went up 1%. What the Flip??? I believed we were locked in 25 days ago. We were going for a "USDA" Loan. I was really unhappy with the lack of professionalism and lack of ethics of this lender; I decided to look up their reviews. I got really sick to my stomach. Others had gone through what we were going through with Big Valley Mortgage and even Scott Cooper. We had given notice for our current residence, and we were 80% packed. Things went bad to worse. We were not approved for our loan, but they could put us in a different loan. No Lenders Credit, 3.5 % down and over 5.25 interest rate (we started at 4%). We pulled out after 35 days, we could not afford it. We don't have a lot of money. This was going to be our 1st home, a home for a grandchildren to come, we loved the home very much. We requested American Pacifica Mortgage, to refund our inspection fees, and they did immediately. We received only 1/2 of our $5,000.Ernest money from the seller. I requested American Pacific Mortgage, DBA Big Valley Mortgage, to refund the other $2,500. They declined. They are responsible for all the Frustration, Anger, Sadness, disbelief and monetary loss ; due to lack of integrity, lack of professionalism and no character. This is more than just about the $2,500 we lost due to Big Valley Mortgage incompetency, its about doing right by the consumer. I will post on Facebook, talk to who ever will listen and perhaps picket in front of there building. DO NOT GO TO THEM. American Pacific Mortgage, DBA Big Valley Mortgage is not honest and has no integrity. They are not here for the consumer. Again, I ask what does Pre-Approved really mean? Go write a bunch of checks? read more

I have been truly annoyed about my whole experience with this company. We first started working with Gary Davis, seemed pretty cool at first. But communication was totally feeling off and just felt red flags consistently. Getting texts at like 830pm regarding a response or things they needed from us I guess in that second? I work early and have to go to bed early, why message me so late? Then when we needed help or had questions we wouldn't hear a response for over 3 days when we were in a time crunch! Gary needed assistance with our loan I guess because he kept going out of town? So he assigned Anthony Digiorno. This guy is a HUGE joke! I'd hear stories from my boy friend how he was talking to him, being rude, disrespectful and belittling. We straight up told Gary that we didn't want to talk to Anthony anymore. If we weren't so deep into our loan process for our home, I wish we would of switched lenders in the very beginning. When you apply for a home loan they needed my W2 forms. So I gave them over 4 yrs of forms. They kept saying I would get them back but when more time went by I never saw them again. After our loan was qualified and things were closing I questioned where my original W2 forms were. My boy friend said Gary no longer worked for Big Valley Mortgage so I first contacted Anthony because he was possibly the last person who touched our files. I emailed and called him. I never till this day received a response. So I called the office again and they were very apologetic and said Anthony too left their company but they would take care of the problem. I spoke with Marc who seemed very helpful. He took a couple hours to look up our files, mentioned that after awhile they would shred our original forms, but had them on the computer. What the heck! Those are my ORIGINAL FORMS! They mentioned they could print a copy and mail them to me. So I started to feel a glimpse of hope. My first phone call was August 19, It is now September 16 and I still never received my forms. I emailed Marc this morning reminded him of our conversation. He had no recognition of our problem and couldn't even find our file or information?!? I have paperwork, proof of my calls! What is going on? Am I in the twilight zone? How hard is it to send me my own forms?? He decided to forward my emails to another employee Vivian. She happened to find my information... as anyone their should have... she handled my problem in like an hr. How come this was so difficult? I even gave Marc my loan # to help locate our file electrically or whatever system they use. Vivian emailed me a copy of the tracking # and that she mailed me what I needed... I would of given this lender 1 star but gave Vivian that second one. Thanks Vivian for actually getting to the bottom of this for me. I'll never recommend this business or use them ever again. It was such a headache! read more

Big Valley Mortgage - Mortgage Lenders Near Me - Roseville, California

Rodney Anderson does a great job and my clients and I have really appreciated all his going-out-of-his-way help! Kaye Swain read more

Bill goes above and beyond to help his client. He makes the process easy and knows how to deal with refinancing for divorcing couples. thanks read more

Rodney is the best! Always informative and such a big help. We would never use anyone else

The worst company everr.. these people have left my family and my self in the cold and exposed.. honest truth.. they led me on starting last month for a cash out refi.. starting May 18th I paid for an appraisal.. everything seemed fine. Then yesterday I get a call from Buzz.. the manager.. Buzz says I don't qualify for a refi at all. Now I am dead in the water and stranded because of these people.. do not use them... They don't take accountability for there actions or there employees actions and something that should be there problem they have tried to make mine. have had to resort to securing a lawyer now... Please anyone who reads them STAY AWAY from these people..they aren't worth the hassle and I have lost money.. they also put had me pay off some of my credit card debt .. and go through all this stuff for NOTHING.. I'm left with no money... RIDICULOUS.. read more

We recently bought a home, and we highly recommend working with Michelle Marie Smith. We didn't think a loan officer could be so impactful in the process - and we were so wrong. Michelle is very knowledgeable, diligent, and provided clear information in a timely manner. She was extremely responsive to even the smallest of questions and led us through the loan process with ease. In our case, the sellers requested a 21-day close, and Michelle got our loan approved and ready to go in just 15 days without complications. We are extremely impressed with her and could not have been happier. read more

All talk, empty promises. Will say anything to reel you in and next thing you know they can't deliver as promised. We were 8 days late on our original closing date and had to request for an extension on the offer twice. We were penalized for every day that we were out of contract ($80/day), and the seller almost backed out of the deal. Faaye agreed to reimburse us for the late fees, but decided that we should use the refund (HUD overpayment) from closing costs. LOL. The loan process was horrible. We were basically backed into a corner when the Faaye announced ONE DAY BEFORE THE CLOSE OF ESCROW and 2 WEEKS AFTER GIVING A LARGE EARNEST MONEY DEPOSIT (non-refundable) that the loan came back short (after reassuring us for weeks that everything was fine!) Come on now! Being that far into the game, and at the risk of losing a large deposit, we were pretty much forced into going through with the deal and forked up A LOT of extra cash to save our real estate transaction from falling through. I can't imagine other buyers in this position who maybe couldn't cover that difference -- would they just be left hanging to dry with no other option but to cancel the offer and lose their deposits? Talk about SHADY!! No one wanted to be accountable for the delays that seemed to go on and on. No apologies, no effort to resolve any conflicts that came up. They just took their money at the end and disappeared. I really cannot recommend this place to anyone. read more

I contacted Chris from the Roseville office on recommendation. I sent him a direct detailed email of my situation. He immediately replied he would get back to me after he re-read my email and had options. He didn't get back to me. Nine days later he sent me an email asking if I was still in the market. Well yeah, I was eight days into loan processing with another mortgage company that responds when they say they are going to. Then he had the nerve to email me that he was waiting on me to make a decision....what? His email went on to say he has been helping other customers who were ready to apply for loans.....whatever. In nine days all my paperwork was already in underwriting and moving toward a timely close, guess my $8,000 commission wasn't worth a timely response. read more

I used Big Valley Mortgage 4.5 years ago when I purchased my first home. To this day, I still consider the process one the "hardest" and Most Expensive life lessons I have ever had to learn. It has taken me nearly the same amount of time to refinance my home in order to get out from the shady loan sold to me by BVM and it cost me an additional $12,000 to pay off the loan early. I recently went back to my original loan documents prepared by BVM, there little to nothing to show that I would have an early payoff payment. Granted, I take full responsibility as I signed the paperwork. But, I do feel that they did take advantage of my naivete being a first time home buyer. FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS - BEWARE! read more

If I were to describe this company in one word that word would have to be Ridiculous! Save yourself a time the time and frustration by NOT doing business with this company! They flat out lied to us and waisted our precious time! We have since moved on to another mortgage company and so far the difference is night and day with Big Valley taking the win for biggest loser!!! read more

If I could give this company zero stars I WOULD!!!! I recently made the mistake of accepting an offer from a buyer using BVM. The loan officer was Jon Von Hoffman at Big Valley Mortgage in Elk Grove. He messed up our transaction so badly that it ended up delaying the 30-day escrow period and our sale closed a week late for no reason other than incompetence and bad business practice!!! When you are selling and buying a home the timing is so important. His inability to close the loan on time caused a domino affect and delayed the closing of our new home and the closing of their loan (sellers of our new home). 4 transaction were affected due to his delay and lies. Jon had absolutely no concern for the problems he was causing. He actually went out of town for a week and left our file sitting there without notifying anyone involved. When my realtor called the manager of BVM, he actually backed up his employee's horrible practices and lack of communication. These people do NOT care about their clients or the timing of the deals they are assigned. His clients could have easily lost a lot of money on this transaction had I pulled the sale. It was one excuses after the next with these people and A LOT of empty promises (LIES)!!!!!! The actual lender was extremely difficult too, STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY if you want a successful transaction!!!! read more

Wow - truly unhappy with Big Valley. They were very responsive for the first week so, and then seem to have dropped the ball entirely. After contacting them for a home loan pre-approval, and giving them all of my paperwork - I have only been met with round after round of trivial follow up questions - it feels like their primary objective has been to stall the process with red tape rather than to help me get an appropriate loan. At this point many of the homes I had my eye on have gone off the market. read more

Unfortunately my boyfriend and I had a bad experience with this company. The people who work there are really nice and seem professional face to face, but dont really get the job done with our situation. My boyfriend and I are buying a house together and have commission based jobs. We know there are rules with that and discussed the situation with Marc. He explained what we needed to do to get the loan. We both have great credit and money to put down on a house. We filled out the application that his assistant, Caren sent us via email. We scanned and emailed right back that same day to both Marc and his assistant from each of our personal emails (technically thats 4 times it was sent). Two weeks go by with no word so we call Marc to get a status update. He said they were still waiting on our paperwork they sent us 2 weeks before. We explained we both sent all the forms to his and his assistant via email. He asked us to resend it as they never received it. It was annoying, but we understand those things happen sometimes so we just resent it. I did realize we would really have to pay close attention after that point, however. A couple days go buy again and we called again. They said they were waiting to do the employee verifications and would do it "right now". Why didnt they do it before? Not when my boyfriend had to call and remind them? It seemed we were going to have to hold their hands through this process. A week later I sent a follow up email to Marc asking what the hold up was. He said he was waiting on my employee verification that he had sent my manager. My manager had already filled out and faxed the forms to him and his assistant a week before!!!! I told Marc this and he asked me to refax it. I did and he magically got it right away. Now a month has gone by at this point with no word on if we were pre qualified for a loan. That day Marc requested more information from my boyfriend, which he again provided right away. that was 3 weeks ago. We still have not heard anything back. When my boyfriend called again last week and Marc's assistant told him that we should be hearing back by the end of the week. That was last week and still havent heard anything back. We just decided to go with another company and are already in the process of getting approved. and it only took 3 days. We are really irritated that we wasted almost 2 months with Big Valley Mortgage. We are very dissapointed with their unprofessionalism and would not recommend them to anyone. read more

Buying a home can be stressful. We had a very tight timeline to close our mortgage and remove the loan contingency. Scott Cooper and the team at BVM Roseville helped reduce the stress and worked hard to meet the crazy timeline. Scott was very good about communicating status of our loan and answering all of our questions. Scott was quick to respond and very easy to reach (email/text/phone). Scott and his team at Big Valley were all professional and trustworthy. Hands down I would use him/them again and recommend them to our friends and family. read more

Big Thanks to Rob Popham and his team for a smooth transaction and all the assistance they have provided. Though Rob went away on vacation during transaction no hiccups occurred and their flexibly for chatting on phone was much appreciated. Closed ahead of schedule, the flexible communication and availability again was very welcomed as my schedule changes frequently. Any questions I had they answered, looking forward to working with them in the future. read more

We had a great experience with Penny McClure with Big Valley Mortgage. Penny is very professional, knowledgeable, friendly, and easy to work with. Her guidance through the (very stressful) home buying process was amazing! I highly recommend Penny and Big Valley Mortgage! read more

Penny McClure and her team are the best! Penny has been my go-to person for two house purchases and one re-finance. Our last transaction, my home refinance, had to close before I left on a trip to England. Penny expedited the process with days to spare. She is friendly, competent and bends over backwards to get the job done. There is no one I trust as much as Penny for my mortgage finance needs. read more

Dana Krause just moved over from Summit Funding which is a big plus for BVM. Dana is very consiencious and represents his clients well. He is very hands on and knows the FHA 203k renovation loan guantee program inside out. read more

This Review is long overdue. We purchased a home in Sept 2014 thru BVM. My contact person was Jeff Silver. . Everytime I had a question or I needed something explained. Jeff was always there and very helpful. If he was not able to answer my phone call, when I called he would always return my call in a timely manner. Jeff makes himself available day, night and weekends. He is very dedicated to his clients. I would highly recommend doing business with Jeff. The other people in the office were also very helpful and always polite. My husband and I were very surprised to hear that Jeff was also going to be there for the signing,just to make sure everything went smoothly. We highly recommend working with Jeff and his staff Debbie and Curt Clawson read more

I have enjoyed my business dealings with Faaye, in the Elk Grove branch of Big Valley Mortgage. I think he is a great loan officer.

KAREN DUNN in the Elk Grove office is AMAZING! We were connected to Karen through our realtor Terri Moule (she's amazing too!). Karen was extremely efficient and always responded promptly to our requests. She was always friendly- even after searching for homes and then realizing we needed to raise our budget, Karen answered our emails during the weekend and never made us feel like we were a bother. It's been a year since we closed on our home (yes, this review is WAY over due!), and we still get correspondence from her. She even sent me a birthday greeting- so sweet! Great customer service is a rare thing and Karen has it! BVM is lucky to have her! read more

Highly recommend! Worked with Penny McClure and her team and was a great experience. They kept us informed of the process, set clear expectations and were friendly and professional. They made a stressful process so much easier for us. read more

When we came to Big Valley Mortgage our situation was pretty bleak - a previous firm had botched and delayed our package to the point of our deal collapsing. From the minute we engaged Marc Brinitzer and his support team it was an A+ experience. They helped patch up the holes and our transaction was breathing again. In record time (less than 30 days) we had a closed deal. Absolutely amazing service, keeping everyone informed at each step, timely followup and daily updates. These guys rock! Thanks for taking on an impossible challenge BVM - and congratulations on proving that with the right talent anything can be accomplished. Recommended with the highest enthusiasm.. throw away the other cards, you won't need them. This is the place. read more

We were LUCKY to have Marc Brinitzer help up us refinance our new home. Our situation was unusual......we had purchased a home as a cash sale......but now we had to refinance to pay off our HELOC and family loans. Also my husband was recently employed AND I would be commuting an hour and a half to my self employment job. Marc had a challenge.......... and he came through! With creativity and his extensive experience and knowledge he was able to secure a loan for us with a decent APR. Communication was timely and with the help of Marc's assistant Caren we felt very secure as we proceeded in what could have been a very stressful process. I'm sure every loan/refinance is unique and I think Marc and his team would be able to honestly fill the needs of most applicants. Thanks Marc and Caren! read more