I purchased a CoolSculpting package from Ideal Image and had a very frustrating experience from start to finish. When I bought the package, the first available appointment was two months out. On the day of that appointment, I took the entire day off work because it was scheduled to last six hours. That morning, Ideal Image called and canceled because their nurse did not come in. I was asked to be patient, which I did, even though I had already waited two months and lost a day of work. When I rescheduled, the next available appointment was another six weeks out. I again waited, came in, and was thanked for being patient. About a month later, my son was severely injured, which understandably delayed my ability to schedule the next appointment. When I contacted Ideal Image to continue my treatments, I was told my CoolSculpting pass had expired and that nothing could be done--even though delays on their end had already cost me months. I explained the situation and asked for flexibility, especially since I had been asked multiple times to be patient with them. Over the next four months, I called repeatedly (at least five times) asking to speak with a manager. Each time I was told a manager would call me back. No one ever did. After six months of trying to resolve this, I'm giving up. The lack of communication and unwillingness to work with a long-standing customer is unacceptable. Terrible customer service and very disappointing experience. So does Coolsculpting work? Not from my one time experience at Ideal Image. read more

The customer service at Ideal Image was terrible. I bought and paid for a laser hair removal package and they did not deliver. they didn't keep appointments and were rescheduling. I gave up. They got my money and I did NOT get what I paid for. read more

Title: Bruised, Injured, Gaslit, and Blamed for Speaking Up I visited Ideal Image in West Jordan for what should have been a routine cosmetic treatment. Instead, I left with a deep, persistent bruise from being injected directly into a vein by my eye--a mistake that should never happen with a qualified injector. It's now been over three weeks, and the bruise has still not healed. The discoloration is severe. She also injected above my eye and left visible damage near a mole that was previously my only mark in that area. After the treatment, a second mark appeared--proof of the injection gone wrong. When I returned to discuss the injury, I was met with gaslighting and denial. A staff member told me the nurse didn't inject near that location--even though she did, and I watched it happen. They tried to claim both the mole and the post-treatment mark were the same thing, which was both insulting and objectively false based on photos. Then, during this conversation, the staff member kicked me. She called it an "accident." But in that moment, I experienced a PTSD episode, triggered by being physically harmed in a space where I should have been safe. I have filed a formal complaint and will be taking further action through medical and legal channels. This experience was traumatic, humiliating, and damaging--physically and emotionally. If you value your face, your safety, or your dignity, avoid this clinic. They do not take responsibility for their errors, and if something goes wrong, you'll be treated as the problem. read more

Buyer beware! Do not go to this place. It is very very tricky to get an appointment. I went in for botox. The A.A. woman who gave me the botox treatment caused me to have a LOT of pain. Days later, I still have pain and bumps. I have had botox treatments several times before at med spas. It has NEVER been painful till I went to Ideal Image. Avoid this place! read more

The only redeeming things about this place are the nurses (super nice) and the actual services(laser hair removal actually works). The customer service team is an absolute nightmare, they won't offer a refund even when it's their own staff that created the problem and overcharged you. Ashley in the customer service team said "I've spent 20 minutes of my time explaining this to you" as if I'm stupid and this isn't her literal job. Terrible customer service, blaming me for their own errors and then refusing to fix anything. Seriously go somewhere else if you want to have a single person give you true and accurate information and follow through. I would 100% cancel my contract if they would let me. Absolutely insane! I hate this place, and will tell everyone I know to never go here! read more

I have nothing but LOVE & RESPECT for Sam at Ideal Image. She is ABSOLUTELY a TRUE GIRLFRIEND when you need REAL answers on procedures to get done. I trust her completely and I'm so grateful that I found her at ideal image! A++++ SERVICE read more

Hello to anybody that may be reading this and is considering doing any type of treatment with Ideal Image. I been a member since 2021. I was wrongly mislead and scammed by the sales rep. I signed a contract for hair removal in 3 areas, full bikini, peri anal and under arm. I paid $3000 thousand dollars and an additional $250 to become a member. I was told by the sales rep and as it is written in the contract; "after the one-time initial fee, the Lifetime guarantee entitles you to pretreatment on all past, present and future laser hair removal package purchased with Ideal Image for the areas treated." the LIFE TIME GUARANTEE ENTITLES YOU TO 90% OFF THE THEN CURRENT SINGLE SESSION PRICE FOR THOSE APPLICABLE SERVICE AREA ("LTG TOUCH UP FEE"). this is exactly how it's written on the contract. When you sign a contract and are given reassurance, on touch up prices by the sales rep; you rest assured that your LIFETIME GUARANTEE will be just that. My biggest disappointment in Ideal Image is them not following through with what was once their initial guarantee and the faults sales tactic that lead me to purchasing and signing a contract. Going based off of what the contract says, and the price I was given on the video consultation do no longer apply due to price change; in addition I am also being denied the 90% discount on my past treated areas, so now instead of paying $69 dollars on all future retreated areas how it's stated in the contract and what were the exact words that I was told by the sales rep that $69 dollars would be my standard price on ALL FUTURE TOUCH UPS, GUARANTEE "NO EXCEPTION" the sales rep even told me if in 40 years I need a touch up this would be my price. After speaking with management and corporate they do not want to entitle me to my 90% discount because they said prices are subject to change and are not following through with their guarantee. I think this says a lot about this company and I honestly wouldn't want anyone to be misled or persuade to something that doesn't have your interest in mind. These are the current prices I was given $99 for biking, $170 for anal, and $88 for underarm area. A total of $357 for a single touch up!!! now comment if you think that's a fair reasonable price?? through my years as a member there has been multiple conflicts going back and forth with this subject as I spoken with different management members that some no longer work there. I talked to corporate and they seem to not have a solution for this and can only offer stander price even though I have a Lifetime Guarantee, I was told it no longer applies even though it a " LIFETIME GUARANTEE" I feel scammed, and this is a huge fraudulent sales tactic. Promising and making it seem that their lousy guarantee is what they say it is. In addition this is not the only reason why I highly do not recommend Ideal Image; I purchased a 9 sessions hair removal treatment that is through a 16 month completion contract, because we have to wait 6-8 weeks period before the next follow up, I wasn't able to get my last session in, because they had to reschedule me multiple times and when it came to rescheduling they denied my last session because the 16 month contract had expired. I spoke with the clark about how they kept pushing my appointment and that's why I never got to complete the sessions, I was told I would get a call back and that was never resolved or reimbursed or even got a call back. I could go on realistically but I won't take more time in writing you a review I just want everyone who's reading this to be aware of the scams they've made, how they mislead and persuade you into purchasing a service without much of your interest. I stared my first sessions in 2021 and it's 2025 and I still grow hair in all the areas that were treated. To sum up they suck!. read more

I had Laser Hair Removal done today. I was scared that it would be painful and just nervous all the way around. Nina, my nurse was so kind nd so understanding of how I felt. She talked me through it and made it so much easier. Thank you, Nina! You are AWESOME!! I would go back again and again. read more

Not worth it. I had one more treatment that I couldn't go to because I had Covid. I had to cancel online because I trying to call from their website was a no-go. Couldn't get anyone. They sent me an email saying I could reschedule, so tried! Went online, no openings. Tried calling, was on hold for over an hour, no one answered. Since none of the communications and abilities given could get me in contact with Ideal Image, I ended up forgetting about it for a while because I was heavily annoyed. Looked at my iPhones maps and used that way to call a different number since none of the ideal images office phonesI have seem to work, nor their website. Got through to someone, finally , and they said I would have to pay the touch-up fees since apparently my contract expired during the period I was trying to call these people to set up an appointment while I had Covid. It doesn't help that ideal image cancelled on me once before on their end. Now this! They didn't even call to let me reschedule, especially when I have an expiration date that they didn't helpfully remind me. Not going here again. What an expensive waste. read more

They offer good pricing and many services. Their front desk customer service is severely lacking. A smile and friendliness goes a long way. I was told the nurse would be right out...15 minutes went by and nothing....another 15 minutes went by and nothing. The young girl at the front desk didn't bother to check in with me or the other staff members to see what the issue was. When I was called back she thought I was a no show and explained it was bc the front desk had not finished checking me in so they were unaware I was even there. Poor communication on their end. read more

Worst customer service ever. They canceled my appointment twice. I kind and understanding about the cancellations. However, on my third attempt to go in, I was running a few minutes late . I got to the appointment in under the fifteen minutes and they still canceled me. There was no empathy, and everyone was rude. I can't believe how bad the customer service is. I would not recommend this place to anyone . I will not be going back. read more

I was extremely disappointed with the cool sculpting services. One year later and $7,000. invested, I did not see results. My appointments were either rescheduled or the nurse didn't show up. It has been a frustrating experience all around! read more

Not very happy with the overall results as well as the treatments. I expected better results. Three times in a row they canceled my appointment because they didn't have a tech to cover and when I had to cancel for an emergency they charged me for "no show". read more

If i could give negative 5 I would, I reached out for cool sculpting prices and we got as far as knowing if i would be approved on a loan that was not in house, I decided to contemplate it more and while i was i get notified of a new collection on my credit, when i went to see what it was for the loan i was approved for but did not use or have used, i want to think its an honest mistake, called them and woman i spoke to said all "higher ups" in new york leave early fridays, i am literally on hold today because she said i signed a contract, I dont recall signing on to being forced to use a loan on again services i have not used, now im scared cause she said all they can do is give me credit, meanwhile im a couple thousands in debt, what the actual fruck?!!!! if all I can do is use credit how i can i trust shady business like this with my body/being? #scared read more

DO NOT GO HERE!!!!! Horrible horrible horrible. Spent $2300 on laser and they won't let me finish my treatments!!!!!! Horrible customer service, expensive and don't even get what they say . Lifetime my butt!!!! read more

Treatment not only didn't work but left my skin worse than before. Customer service was pretty bad, and I always left feeling like nobody cared how my treatments were going even after I explained a few times that I didn't see any differences. I got Broadband Light treatment on my face. A total of 5 treatments. The treatment lifted sun spots/pigment to the surface and at that point they say the spots are supposed to turn into coffee ground looking spots that slough off. Well they never sloughed off after coming to the surface and now I'm left with multiple dark spots on my face that appear darker than before. I noticed this after my third treatment so I mentioned it during my last two and the people administering the treatment wouldn't even acknowledge me. They would sometimes say my face would be red and a bit painful afterwards but I never experienced any sensation afterwards whatsoever, or any redness, so I believe they weren't using the machine correctly. If nothing happened, that would be one thing, but to be left with many dark spots from the treatment, I'm left feeling angry, ripped off and ugly. On top of that, I also bought Botox that I switched to credit for laser hair removal... every single time I'd try to talk to someone about it they would say they'd have to talk to their manager and couldn't see notes of that in my chart. I talked to someone a few times about it and they assured me it was in my chart but then when id go to schedule with the receptionists they couldn't see it and would say they'd look into it but never did. So now I'm just out of that money I paid. It's nearly impossible to get an appointment that works with a normal work schedule too. Their turnover is so bad that multiple appointments of mine got cancelled because the person I was scheduled with quit. I will never go to Ideal Image again. They're extremely unprofessional and made my skin problem much worse! They should give me my money back! read more

Well, I've have had hair laser removed here, was happy and I've been wanting to come back for the touch up. So finally I scheduled myself in and a day before my appointment they call me that they have to reschedule me. And it is a week before my vacation in Mexico. So I tell them about this and they say well when do you want us to schedule you? Well tomorrow was perfect. But anyway when we are trying to figure out the date I ask when will it be a good time to come back for the last appointment, because I'm going to be tanning. And the receptionist Hannah tells me you don't need to wait, you can come for the appointment anytime. Seriously! They turn the clients back if they have been exposed to the sun because the white marks can be left from the laser. Please, train your receptionists better. read more

The very same thing that happened to Kylie P happened to me. :( I was very hesitant to spend the money this close to Christmas (on myself) but with the extra perk of the "double points" I purchased the members Botox 70 units and took the "very last and only available" appt which happened to be in West Jordan. I asked three different times "You're sure I can get the appt available in WJ? I will be driving an hour to go to that appt. but Orem does not have 1 available." and I was told "yes - they can get you in on Sunday - the last day that offer is available" so I paid the $ and booked the appt. 15 minutes before my appt - I was literally pulling into their driveway in West Jordan (drove an hr. to get there) and got a call. "We will have to reschedule your appt. we do not have the person on our schedule who is able to do Botox". I told her my situation and that I was literally already there - and she apologized and said she would check with her Botox rep. to see if they could do anything to honor my "double points" and she promised me a call back the next day (in the very least... she said... I will text you.) She did say "our rep is awesome and I am sure she can do something to make this up to you - but we can't see you today because we don't have anyone here that can do the Botox. Again, very sorry." What I got..... nadda! zip! No call. No text. Apparently this company books appts they can't fill and then apologize, deposit your money, pay their inhouse bonuses and you get squat! Here forth, I will ALWAYS pay deeper attention to the reviews (Kylie P warned me in her review). If they smell like a fish..... Candi read more

Bought a package for $250 a year ago. Went for an ultherapy treatment which electrocuted my teeth. I left mid session. They offered another something and I didn't go back. I called in September guaranteed me my membership would not renew. Here we are at Xmas and they yank 250 out again. I called them on the 14th and the girl claims she saw the notes about my cancellation and I would have my money back in 3 days. No money, another phone call, they show I called but told me they have to charge $20 to cancel. This is crap, they are not reputable. read more

Id give ZERO stars if I could. This place should be out of business. I have called 3 times today...about 3 hours total waiting for someone to take my call. mid conversation I got hung up on and had to repeat the same painful process again. Its been like this not just today but for MONTHS. Also, I have shown up to appointments 2-3 times and they apologized and turned me away because they made booking mistakes. The nice lady tech that did my coolsculpting said SHE was going to leave there soon bc of how crummy the company/management is. I have 1 more appt because I am trying to use up packages I already purchased but NEVER AGAIN RUN folks!! Any service you want from them go look on Google or Yelp you'll find plenty of OTHER places with 4/5 STAR ratings. read more

I tried to make an appointment, I got 2 calls from people that clearly are not from the state I live in. They tried to sell me a "membership" over the phone, without even seeing me. To be clear, I did not visit the establishment, but the sales calls felt very spammy. And I was hung up on when I tried to ask how much the treatments would cost. Im going to stick with the Botox person I've seen before, even though it's a long drive. I'm quite disappointed in the service calls. read more

I actually have really liked the nurses when I get treatments. I've been doing laser hair removal but I don't know if they don't pay their nurses well or what because the turnover seems really really high. I've had five laser hair treatments so far, two of which got rescheduled from them having issues. When they are rescheduled they get pushed back one to two months. My sixth am treatment I was just rescheduled for the third time. The laser hair removal has been going okay, the hair isn't coming back as course but it's still not close to gone and supposedly after 6 treatments it's supposed to so we will see. read more

They try to sell you the packets before you have a consultation to know what would be best . I was there a few years back & had hair removal & facial services . There is not a doctor on staff so they have to wait to get verbal approval based on the injector . I have had several treatments , & waited longer than was reasonable . I had an accident some years back that resulted to significant damage to my eye . A new injector would not give me services because she had never seen me before & was not farmilar with my situation. I explained the accident situation . After waiting 2 hours for the doctor to call , I walked out as I was due at work . I felt humiliated & demeaned . My chart had all the information did I need to go into traumatic details ? They demanded another doctor give me a release as theirs was not willing to give me the ok , after my protest . I did receive services elsewhere without issue . read more

Bait and switch rip off! I met with 4 different laser hair removal providers to get an idea what average cost is. The range is $990 to $1500 for Brazilian hair removal. This place said they were offering a 70% off promo. I scheduled a consult thinking their prices would be in line with the average, but BOY was I wrong. They quoted me $7497.00 for bikini line, applied the 70% off promo, making the "sale" total $2499.12. It's not a promo if you drastically inflate your price to make it appear like a sale is happening. Why would anyone pay double what the average total is EVERYWHERE else??? It's horrible business practice to assume your consumer is: A) uneducated to competitors pricing B) inflate prices to appear like they are actually offering savings C) not disclose pricing without getting the consumer into their establishment. Do not waste your time or money here. Fraudulence should not be rewarded with paying customers. read more

Ideal Image West Jordan - Laser Hair Removal Near Me - West Jordan, Utah

First, I finished my contract, but I still have lots of hair. Second they burned my vagina pretty bad, bad enough to leave a scar that hurts when you touch it. Called to complain about it and someone says they filled out and that I would receive a call back about compensation. Never received a callback. Call in again and told them what happened and then the lady hung up on me. I do not recommend the West Jordan in Location was a 40 minute drive and half the time when I showed up to my appointment, they would turn me away and tell me that they need to reschedule because they are understaffed and didn't have time to get to me. Do not recommend because you think you are paying thousands of dollars to get good customer service and good results but neither happens. read more

Such a dishonest company. Everything they tell you is a lie. I was told when I bought my $4,000 package that I would have free touch-ups for life, that they guarantee the results, and that I could buy pulses per area as needed. They made it near impossible to get in for appointments in a timely manner during initial sessions. By the time my "contract" time was up I had only been able to get in so many appointments and it wasn't enough to reach full results. When I scheduled touch-ups they charged me, contrary to what I was told initially. And then when I asked to schedule one of the per pulse appointments they told me I couldn't do it that time but would have to do it the next time. The next time i went in they had changed their policy and that was no longer an option. They weren't willing to do anything to honor what they had previously said. read more

I had Lauren and I really liked her. I thought she did the extra that Orem did not do. I know that some people did not have a good experience here, I did and I've gone to other laser hair removal places. I am definitely going back. read more

BUYER BEWARE! This place will very literally steal from you. I went in last year and signed up for 4 cool sculpting treatments. I used three and had one left. I called to schedule an appointment and the girl on the phone first said I did not have another left to use. I assured I have only used 3 or 4. She placed me on hold and came back saying my 4th had expired. I was specifically told multiple times that once you buy a package you can use it whenever you want. Now they are telling me I signed a contract that I must use all services in 6 months or they just keep my money and no services will be rendered. How is that fair or a just business practice??? I am currently awaiting a manager to call me back. I am appalled they feel it is ok to steal a lot of money from people and say " sorry you should have read the fine print instead of trust what we tell you when you sign up" I am willing to change this review if they do the right thing and either offer me a refund, or what I prefer is just give me what I paid for. read more

STAY away from this business. They constantly canceling your appointments as they like and every time they have an excuse. Staff are the worst ever; they are super rude specially Kelsey Adamson. read more

I rarely leave a review but feel I should tell my story. I had laser hair removal done. I had an unprofessional appointment occur and so I asked for a refund. They told me no refund would be granted. Essentially they screwed up and then kept my money. I can't get it back because you pay up front for a contract instead of for each service. Don't take just my word look up "ideal Image and refund" and see the lists of people with this issue. Good luck finding somewhere else for what you need but don't go here. read more

I prepaid for services. I called several times to make an appointment. During that time my services expired. I called and was promised over and over that management would call back. For 3 months, I tried to contact management about my prepaid services. I went into the brick and mortar store to try and get help. Nothing. I canceled my membership. They still charged me $250. I emailed. Called. No response. Finally my bank reversed the charges. I wasted hours on the phone. Emails. I've been to the store 3 times and it's locked. Don't do business here. No integrity!!! read more

I am having a very difficult time getting an appointment because I don't get a return email or return call to my communications with Ideal Image. I've visited multiple locations and the communications between the locations is quite poor. The folks with whom I've worked are kind, but I am getting to the point I want my money back so I can find a more responsive provider. Quite frustrated. Please call me back. read more

I had an incredibly professional and helpful experience with Stacey ,an Ideal Image representative. She was Extremely helpful and knowledgeable about special promotions that are being offered this month. Thank you Stacey , your Awesome! Sincerely, SC read more

Absolutely worst customer service. I paid over $1000 for my upper lip on their *Black Friday* "80% off" deal, realized that I as very over priced, and tried getting ahold of somebody IMMEDIATELY, to no avail. "Let me take your number and they will call you back" every day, for three days. Never did get a call back, or ahold of anybody. So I fought it with my credit card company and these guys have a "no cancellation" policy, even if you got zero service, and the "consultation" was a three minute phone call where they asked two questions and they told me the price, and then took my credit card number. I was told there would be a zoom consult and everything and there wasn't. So after I hung up I was very confused, and then continually annoyed as nobody wanted to help. Cancelled my appointment and let's just say things haven't gotten any better and unfortunately this is now affecting my credit score and nobody at ideal image is willing to transfer me to somebody who can help. read more

I've been getting treatment done at this location for a year. The staff is friendly but the building is really run down and poorly maintained. Today was my last appointment, when I showed up the building was locked with all the lights turned off. I called customer service to see what was going on? The customer service women said I didn't confirm my appointment and ideal image canceled it. I did confirm my appointment using their app and was extremely disappointed that I drove 30 minutes away to then learn my appointment has been cancelled. I didn't receive a text or email telling me the appointment had been canceled. I've confirmed every appointment I've had with them - I thought it was very convenient that my appointment was canceled and the entire location was closed. I work in the service industry and try to give the benefit of the doubt but today was very disappointing and frustrating. I will not return and won't recommend ideal image. read more

This company is a scam. They just want your money. Their products don't work. I paid $3500 for cool sculpting on my hips and thighs. They show you pictures of before and after so you think it will work and it's less evasive then lipo. Nothing changed, no inches lost and they tell you that results take time. This is probably because their refund is only good for 45 days after you sign up. I needed up spending more money and getting lipo. I wish everyone could know they are a scam so they don't waste their money on this company and their products that don't work. read more

This is my second review to see if somebody really will get in touch with me regarding the disaster Utherapy applied and the Dyaspor and 17 units that you still have and have not been applying and nobody answers, and nobody calls me This Jessica Kallberg is making fun of me sending me emails that she will call me and she doesnt say anything, I want my money back thieves Liliana read more

Anne helped me today at the West Jordan location and was SO nice to me, including making me feel better about my lack of knowledge with Botox. I had quite a few questions. She was great! Super knowledgeable about what she does. HOWEVER there is one thing that slightly irritates me. I paid for my lips and the Botox to be done. And now I have to wait until JULY 21st:/ When you do a consult it's over the computer, virtually. And she she said she would get back to me with a date for my lip injections and could even squeeze me in the same day probably. (Because I drove an hour a way just to get the Botox, since they are really booked out.) And then I never heard back from her in time, which kind of sucked!! It would've been better as a customer to get both treatments done at once. But nevertheless my experience was just as enjoyable. The front desk girl Kylie was super kind, and happy! And it went well (: read more

I haven't had treatments here yet, this is why im giving it a low score (room to increase). I had full leg laser hair removal (leg & thigh) at the dermatologist I previously worked for. Since my last treatment (4yrs ago) i have had some growth, it has grown back thinner & patchy areas. No big deal, I only shave about once every 2 weeks. I went to I.I. in order to purchase a few treatments to touch up. Unfortunately, they only offer 18 month packages- this means you sign a contract stating you will pay the full amt of 18 treatments. I showed my legs to the person giving me my consult-Stacey M., she recommended that I purchase the laser hair package. That's when I realized they prob work off commission. Which is a bummer for these ppl. Any knowledgeable employee knows that there's no reason I should spend 3k on removing hair that is so minimal, she acted like it was necessary, how pathetic, but then again that's why I have never chosen to work as a salesman. She also told me I can't sit out in the sun more than 30 mins a day. I like to sun bathe one week out of every summer month, but she says it's recommended we don't during these 18 months! Goodness how terrible to be pale all summer lol!! I think these salesmen need to try the product they are selling before giving advice. I know more about laser hair removal than her, simply bc I've had the treatments done. Im in search of a place that offers smaller packages or singles treatment options. Anywho I bought a bikini package bc the price was right! read more

Okay, this is a review on the behalf of my wife who experienced these services first hand, but she just returned from her third treatment and I am furious about the way she has been treated the last two times and want to warn others about their terrible customer service. She noticed that the last nurse hadn't removed hair evenly and asked today's tech about evening things up so that they were symmetrical - reasonable request right? Especially considering the price premium that this place charges, but no. She was lectured by the nurse that they weren't hair sculpting but rather were hair removal. This while sitting naked in the treatment room with only the sheet as cover. When my wife got upset and started to cry (for real, she was that rude) the nurse was then apologetic and blamed her behavior on the fact that she hasn't had her coffee. Seriously? This after the nurse in her last treatment felt the need to lecture her when she was a few minutes late (and had offered to reschedule with the receptionist btw) about all the setup she had to do twice because of my wife's tardiness. I don't care whether you are a nurse or a janitor, you work in a customer service industry - start acting like it and treating your customers with courtesy and respect. For what these guys charge I would expect a premium experience, not an experience so bad that my wife doesn't want to go back for the remaining treatments. For the record, the first of the experiences was good, and the nurse treated my wife very well, explained everything thoroughly and made her feel great about the treatment and cost. Sadly this is only 30% of the time so far. Unacceptable. read more