Had Ivan come out to do mold test told me I had dangerous levels of mold hired him which was a big mistake. He charged me $15,000 to fix everything but all I got was a small bathroom area done and my kitchen area under the sink . There was also a leak under the sink which he said would be repaired but I found recently it hadn't been done he told me he was not a plumber and to look at my invoice. The price I paid should have been for the whole house! I was taken . He also told me i needed a filter in my ceiling and he put one in and it shut down my air conditioner and almost ruined it ! Do not use this company. I have reported them to the better business bureau. I'm also having a licensed company coming out to see if my mold is gone. If I find out I still have mold I will be taking this company to court. I should have checked the reviews before I hired someone. Be careful out there, there are a lot of crooks who especially like to take advantage of women!! read more

I hired Ivan for a Mold detection, and my experience was excellent, they were super professional. I highly recommend them.

AWFUL Lying company!! Do not recommend They lie to you, your insurance and tear apart your home with out permission They put lock boxes on and do not lock or put them on properly so anyone can break in They do not communicate They want to put your things in a uhaul in your drive way for anyone to come steal everything you own vs a storage unit read more

Remove dry wall and have asbestos all through my house. Did plumbing without a plumber license. Destroyed my house

I was provided their contact through Angi so I thought I would have a good experience with Savon. Unfortunately I did not research there reviews on Yelp. Ivan looked at the work I needed and provided me with a verbal and electronic quote. I accepted the quote and he said he'd send an invoice. The invoice did not come so I reached out to him and he called me the next day. on the call he asked for my CC number so I asked him how much the deposit would be. He responded that it was for the full amount. I told him that I've never paid for any a home repair in full and I would pay him half. He replied that was not acceptable and "good luck if you change your mind call me". Reading the other reviews on this site I'm glad this happened and I didn't finalize the deal! read more

We had work done on the exterior of our home and it turned out beautifully extremely happy with the work. Great company and would highly recommend!!! Will definitely use them again read more

Edit: After reading my reviews, SavOn reached out and asked for the opportunity to make it right. A team was sent to my house to yesterday to note all the issues, and they came back today correct them. Now it looks like a professional siding job. We are now 100% satisfied. Our project was pretty simple, or so we thought, we needed some pieces of siding repaired or replaced. There was storm damage and what looked like Woodpecker holes. After reviewing several bids, we went with Sav On. They came by a few days later on 8/25 and tore out the old siding and wood, leaving the remnants next to the side of the house. After they took it down, they went around to try to find it at a local retailer. It had to be special ordered. (They KNEW it wasn't available prior to starting the job, Ivan said so when he came over prior to the estimate.) Instead of being prepared, they ordered the siding and put a huge plastic sheet up over the front of the house because it would be a few days before it came in. They noticed that two more pieces over the roof of the garage also needed replacing. I agreed and the estimate went up almost $300. A few days later on 8/31, they were back they were back to install the siding. They only did the section by our bathroom window and were here for a max of 2 hours. Siding around and under the guest bathroom window was removed and replaced on 9/1. We could hear the nail gun going off and were glad that the plastic would be removed. Then I heard shattering glass. A light bulb in bathroom was broken due to vibrations from the nail gun. I thought for sure it was the mirror, it was that loud. When I heard the glass break, I ran upstairs and the guy installing was surprised to see me. The window had been removed for some reason that I still don't understand. He didn't think anyone was home, but he did apologize for the lightbulb. A while later, when it was quiet for an extended period, I went back upstairs to see if the window had been replaced. That is when I noticed that it was set incorrectly, very off center, and one of the glass panels was cracked. This is what gets to me, they knew we were home; the dude had apologized for the broken light bulb! The also knew that because we were home, they had access to the house. They didn't even attempt to make sure the window was put back correctly. On top of that, they didn't say anything about the crack, they just left. The window sill was extremely dirty and there was chipped paint everywhere. There was also a nail protruding from the top of the window. I sent an email to Ivan telling him this was completely unacceptable. The following day on 9/2, a crew showed up to do the texturing, I told them not to do anything before Ivan came to see the damage. He showed up a few minutes later to inspect and said they would take care of it. A guy from their "fix it" crew called me the following day to schedule a time to come take a look at what they needed to do to make it better. They showed up on 9/4 to reset the window, remove the nail, seal, and paint the sill. We didn't hear anything about replacing the glass for several days after that when Taylor called to say someone would be on Friday 9/11 to do an estimate. That guy came and went in just a few minutes, which was nice, but we were still in limbo about what was next. Taylor called me on 9/15 saying that the glass would be replaced on the 16th.The tech came and went pretty quickly and we had a fresh panel of glass, it is the cleanest glass in the house by the way. We had no idea when anyone would be back to finish the job. I got up the following Saturday, 9/19, and heard commotion outside the bathroom window. A team had stopped by to do the texturing. On Monday 9/21, Ivan called asking if we had any paint that matched. We had told him twice already that we didn't have any, and if we did, it would be more than 6 years old and very degraded by now. They came by, got a sample from the removed pieces, and were back later that day to paint. On Tuesday 9/22, we received a notice from our HOA regarding construction garbage next to our house. I sent yet another email to Ivan asking that they please remove it all. He returned with another guy on 9/23 to remove all the junk and do some touch up painting. When they thought they were done, Ivan said to me, "it looks pretty good, doesn't it?" I asked him about all the staples from the plastic sheeting that were still in the accent wood. They said they would remove them. I pointed out all the visible holes from where the nails were put in, he said they would take care of those. The staples were removed and we can't really see where they were, holes are still visible on the left and right sides of accent wood, and on the framing by the roof where they replaced the vertical pieces. Grey paint from the accent wood streaked in to the beige paint on the siding. Paint is streaked on the bottom piece of wood. read more

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I can't even begin to describe how unprofessional Ivan is. . He has no Customer service skills . If you have an issue and you adress it with him you will be out of luck because talking to him to resolve the issue will be worse than talking to a bratty teenager . I called him to let him know that the plumbers report wasn't received. He almost hung up on me because he kept assuring me that it was. It's almost as he got offended because I told him we haven't received it. He told me they had sent it. Then I talk to his assistant and she was sending the wrong Insurance my information, therefore there's no way we could of received it! . Which I completely understand I was not upset about it because she is very reasonable and she actually has great customer service. She apologized and fixed the information right away. In no way shape or form was I ever disrespectful towards her at all because she has great communication and customer service. Now on the other hand Ivan has not one clue how to talk to people. He doesn't even take notes he texted me to ask what the damage was again since he clearly forgot. He couldn't let me speak , kept speaking over me until he said he wasn't going to deal with me. Because clearly he likes to sweep stuff under the rug. He didn't think to check with his employees first to fix the small issue. That could of avoided this big problem but he can't even do that. read more

Sav On Home Improvement - Carpet Cleaning Near Me - Chandler, Arizona

I was recently doing some repairs in my kitchen, when I pulled my fridge out noticed the water lines had been leaking for some time. Called a few places, Sav On was able to schedule me in sooner than the others I called. They walked be me through what they needed to do. They were able to fix the water lines behind my wall and make the drywall look brand new (even though it's hidden behind the fridge) they definitely take pride in their work. Will definitely be calling if I have any other situations arise that I can't fix! Thank you again! read more

We had Ivan and his team restain our kitchen cabinets . Other company's we asked to quote the job wanted to paint over the natural wood. Ivan took the time to get the stain that matched the original color and finish restoring the cabinets to like new condition. read more

Stay away! please stay away I was rip off $300 I was disappointed in Thier professionalism I was threaded to fight if you want to throw your money away here is the company to do so read more

I live in Tucson, job was in relatives home in Scottsdale. Can't tell you how hard it is to get people to come do estimates or work unless your spending large amounts. Ivan was a god send, left key in lock box and he and his crew came in and fixed the shower, worked with insurance to get most of repair costs back. I've had him do painting and repair to outside of home since then as well. I have found him easy to talk to and very reassuring in demeanor. I can reach out to him and he is willing to come right away and I appreciate that. read more

After having multiple mold inspections and various companies tell me I had major moisture damage in the walls, Ivan came out to inspect the damage. He figured out the real issue, used the correct tools to inspect our house finding the actual root of our moisture issue. He saved us thousands of dollars not using a restoration company. He was the only one who did not try to take our money and create a problem where there was not an issue in the first place. Our mold issue was handled and corrected. He will be my first call in the future for all my home renovation needs! read more

1. Unprofessional 2. Rude 3. Incompetent. I rent a manufactured home and the owner of the property hired this company to take care of mold in the crawlspace caused by a leaky water heater. Instead of removing all the mold from the crawlspace they tore apart the kitchen and put the drying machine in there instead of the crawlspace where the mold was. After repeated request to come back and remove the rest of the mold I gave up they would not do it. read more

Sav On Home Improvement - This is what they left it looking like. - Carpet Cleaning Near Me - Chandler, Arizona

Sav On was amazing! After returning from a trip, I found that the grout in my hall bathroom appeared somewhat darker along my tub area. I immediately called Sav On. The company was able to send someone over right away to see exactly what was going on and where, if any, water was coming from and assess damages. They cut into the fiberglass shower wall where a pin hole leak in the copper piping was discovered. I had no idea how long this had been leaking so they got to work right away. Not only did they seal off the leak to keep further damage from occurring, but also moved about the house to see what other areas may have been impacted. Unfortunately, the water had damaged the wood flooring on the opposite side of the bathroom wall. The crew member began taking photos immediately for insurance documentation and even assisted with the process of contacting the insurance company. Much like all water damage that occurs this is never something that is planned. The crew was courteous and respectful and always kept me informed of the tasks they were completing and the reasoning behind the work. Demolition was done almost immediately once the documentation was taken for the insurance company so the drying fans and containment walls could be set up to soak up the moisture and avoid mold issues. The crew returned daily for the weeks to follow for basically what became a full bathroom remodel and replacing of wood flooring throughout the house. I would highly recommend this company for any water damage or just plain remodel work if needed. I absolutely love my new bathroom and the new flooring that was installed. I even asked if they could update my laundry area since they were already here doing work. They did not hesitate to take on additional work, just explaining that work done not caused by the water damage and not covered by the insurance would be out of my pocket. Sav On has returned to my home to change the color on my cabinets in my kitchen rather than completely replace them. They have also been to my home to replace a broken water heater. I honestly cannot begin to say enough positive things about this company and the work that was completed at my home. You can trust that the work will be completed in a timely manner and that the crew will be professional. read more

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Recently had a mold issue. Spore count was through the roof as far as levels go and I had legitimate concerns due to my child being asthmatic . Sav on home improvement was very informational , provided professional service and always cleaned up after themselves. Hope I never have the need for their service again but will definitely save their information in case i do. read more

I was in need of a bathroom remodel. Called a variety of contractors and sav on happened to the most affordable. Highly impressed with the skills displayed by tile installer Ivan, and would highly recommend for any home remodeling bathroom project you may need for your home . read more

I see a lot of one star reviews accusing the company of being fraudsters or acting in bad faith. I honestly don't think that's the case. My project didn't go as smoothly as I would like, but I never thought Ivan and his crew were out to rob me. This is the first time I have used a general contractor on a project, someone who would take care of everything tip-to-tail and hire out any necessary people. This project involved removing slat board, and putting up drywall. Of course that would require demo, some electrical work, painters, the drywalling itself -- everything. The problem here is I think Sav On really does care for it's clients but sometimes just too much. When they hit a snag (baseboard cemented to the floor) they just ripped it out instead of calling me and asking. After all why cause a delay? When they found mold near my laundry room, they just ripped the laundry room wall off to get to the mold. No need to burden me with the details. When they didn't like the color of my ceiling (it was patchy and had too much glare from the previous owner) they painted over it no charge. The problem is, this wasn't in the original outline for the job. What turned into a week long project, became a 3 week ordeal. It was all stuff that needed to get done, but poor communication meant I didn't know what was going on at my house, nor what I was being invoiced for. The thing that exonerates Ivan the most though is how he took care of me afterwards. If I didn't sign off on a demo, or approve of work they did, I didn't get charged for it or the demolished object was replaced. If he's a thief, that's bad thieving practice for sure. Sav On didn't earn a five-star from me because this was by far the most challenging project to date, but I would still include Ivan's company in a quote round up. If I chose him for a project I would take these steps, and I encourage you to as well. Itemize the Work - Ivan is one of the few GCs that will itemize a project, take advantage of that. Clearly write down the work you need done, in detail, and it will get done. Encourage Ivan to Call You About EVERYTHING - A lot of my frustration on this project came from Ivan caring too much about the room looking nice, and left me frustrated when I didn't know what was being done, what progress was being made, etc. Half Now, Half Later - If you're really concerned about Ivan being a thief, don't pay him till the job is complete. He'll send his guys out to touch up and repaint or repair whatever you need till the job's done. 3/5, would use again (cautiously) read more

AC mold remediation & Roof Repair. The level of honesty, skill, clear explanations & education moving forward, if even needed, with inexpensive upkeep instructions SAVED us thousands of dollars! His findings confirmed concerns we had from previously quoted work proposed without Ivan knowing we had them. Gave all the time needed for us to grasp an unfamiliar issue that was overly exaggerated, while providing clarifying, real-time videos, pictures and testing. They revealed a grossly overlooked problem, a very needed and expensive repair ahead of us if allowed to continue unattended. These findings were in close enough proximity to the exaggerated problem, and observable to the previous service person representing a well-known HVAC Contractor more than ready to sell us a replacement at the tune of 8k to 17k! These real-time pictures and video are exactly what is required by our HOA. A fine person and crew to work with.. read more

WARNING! DO NOT HIRE THIS COMPANY! Their license is currently suspended through the month of Feb 2016 for unethical and unprofessional business practices. I am writing this review on behalf of my disabled senior neighbor. These are her words: This company is extremely unprofessional and a nightmare to work with. He not only frauded me but has done this to several other people around the valley. If you like to be cheated, yelled at and taken advantage of this is the company for you. They were hired to repair the plumbing and replace some kitchen cabinets. It's still not completed that was three years ago. They have collected the funds but have not finished the work. He frauded my insurance company for thousands of dollars for work he submitted but didn't need or do. My home insurance rate has gone up because of this. I went through the Registrar of Contractors and the company only received 1 month suspension. What a disgrace that he will be able to continue to commit fraud and do this to other people. Even the BBB said they couldn't really do anything other than effect his rate which is still at a good rating. One of his staff actually divulged to me that he had done to several other people around the valley. The contractor, Money (that's his name), has on multiple occasions threatened and berated me to give him MORE money even though he received the money directly from the insurance company to do the job. On one occasion his was inches from my face yelling at me to sit down and cut him a check for $200. The cabinets were not installed correctly. They are uneven and have gaps in the doors. They installed a used sink that doesn't function properly. There is damage to my kitchen floor which was never repaired. My home was left in disarray after they stopped the job. My electrical outlets are still missing their covers. Mold was allegedly found on the cabinets. The contractor placed it in regular trash bags, it was not labeled as hazard, and was sitting on the back patio. I requested on multiple occasions to have it removed and finally had to remove it on my own. I was without water for 36 days. Other companies that I talked to said I would of had my water back within 5-7 days. He is not licensed to do plumbing and is not licensed to hire a plumber but still brought in his own plumber and was reprimanded for that. He is only licensed to do clean-up and painting. On one occasion I came home to find the plumber he hired jumping my fence out my yard and when I confronted him he took off running. This job was estimated to take two weeks to complete but it took him a month to fix the plumbing and close to 4 months to get the cabinets installed. A total of 4 months for the job and still isn't completed. He has on several occasions not showed up or called when he was scheduled to work. Excuse after excuse why things weren't being done in a timely or professional manner. Please save yourself from insurance fraud, unprofessional work and terrible work ethic. read more

Beware, stay away from this company! Ive finally decided to write a review about my experience with this awful company, because i couldn't let home owners get jerked around anymore. The owner Ivan is a con artist that will sell you the world with his "experience and professionalism." What a joke. I had a bunch of work done on the inside and outside of my house. The machines used for the remediation smelt of cat urine and was filthy. His crew, which only consist of four people, are unprofessional. For starters, Jon, has no sense of quality or pride in the work he does. You would think for as slow he is there would be some professional work done. Looks like crap and uneven siding. I see why he drives what he does. Ant seems new so i can understand his speed. But he tries to care about the quality of his work. I personally feel bad for him being trained by who hes with. Keegan is a good worker, but again must be new. Some things are a little off but the mindset of quality is there. The best worker there is Jesse, which is the owners son. Im willing to bet he will take over the company so thats why his attitude and quality of craftsmanship is extremely professional. I would just hire him if possible. If you dont care about the actual quality of work done as a whole, the timeframe the work gets completed, the mess left behind by some, then by all means hire them. Their price matches the craftsmanship. read more

Never Use These Guys! They are Thieves. Never completed the job, disappeared with our money, left a mess behind, didn't do the job right, clearly has no training in mold remediation. DON'T USE THEM! read more

Do not use. I contacted to see if I could get a basic mold inspection. I was quoted $95. Ivan came to house. Told me he couldnt do inspection because windows were open, which we were not informed would be a problem. Came back today. He chose to do a different test without diacussing with us which was $300. When I called to discuss it. He tried to tell me we did discuss and he gave me pricing which never happened. When I tried to discuss it with him. He told me he was going to trash my air sample and I could find another company to work with. Then hung up on me. Has no people skills and even less professionalism. read more

Never use these guys. Ivan's a nice guy, but he lacks follow though, follow-up, and completeness. Plus I seriously don't think this company knows what they are doing with mold remediation! They allowed leaks in the plastic containment field to enter the house, had their crews walking into the contaminated area and directly through the house with contaminated work outfits as well as the mold being dragged through my house. in plastic bags Their work was shoddy and sloppy. In fact I had to have another contractor finish the job while this company got fully paid. This is literally one of those contractors you want to avoid. read more

This company is a scam. They will cheat your insurance company out of thousands of dollars and won't even address the issue that you hired them for. I strongly encourage you to consider hiring another contractor. They came into my home, ripped it apart, filed a false insurance claim and did not even fix the mold issue that I had initially called them for. after 3 months of dealing with them, I still have mold issues after they reassured me the problem was fixed. $14,000 for abosolutely nothing but new carpet in the living room and hall way, holes in and big gaps in my walls, contractors who accidentally turn off the gas to my home thinking it was the water valve, headaches and anxiety. read more

DO NOT HIRE THIS COMPANY! This was the most unprofessional experience I have had with a contractor yet! My wife called about mold testing and they asked for $200 dollars up front!!? All of which took place over text message. Steer clear of these D bags. read more

I have used this company three times now to have my carpets cleaned. I have been impressed each time, and I am VERY picky. They are always competitive with their pricing, and they are always on time! Those are two huge pluses for me. I have a habit of calling people who are between 1 and 3 hours late for appointments. They always send two people, who are professional and don't try to sell me a million services. Today, they even fixed a buckle in my carpet for free. I am a very loyal customer to companies that have good customer service and can back it up, with good services. read more

Sav-On painted our two story 3100 sq ft custom home. They did a great job and it looks awesome. We are particularly happy with Pat's (owner) recommendations for extra details appropriate for a custom home and our neighborhood that put the job over the top. read more

I called Sav On to do a mold test on my home after water damage. They charged twice what everyone else did, delayed submitting the test results, lied to me about when they submitted the results, and did the test incorrectly. This company is a joke. I asked for a refund and they refused. They are unprofessional and hide behind words to cover poor performance and horrible customer service. SavOn charges too much. I was charged a price that was twice what the same job was quoted to my landlord. SavOn refused to even refund the difference. Sav On lies. I was in a hurry to get the results of my mold test. Ivan at Sav On said he had submitted the tests in the morning. The report from the lab shows he did not submit them until late in the afternoon. I confirmed it. I then gave Ivan a chance to lie to me again, and he did. Liar! Sav On is untrustworthy. SavOn does not follow accepted business practices. The mold test is compared to mold spores existing outside to determine if there is an elevated level inside. However, industry practices say to take the test at least ten feet away from any door. SavOn took the test within three feet of the door closest to the contamination. The tests were flawed. When I tried to resolve this dispute, Ivan responded that his test showed mold in my home but refused to address any other issues. Sav On Home Improvement is not interested in helping people, they just want your money! read more

In early March 2018 I contacted Savon Home Improvement, (Owner Ivan Money), to conduct a mold/environmental test at a property I own in Phoenix. Ivan responded immediately, same day, and the lab tests were sent later the same day. The quick response was unexpected and appreciated. However, the quality and integrity of the process coupled with Ivan's follow up and poor customer service skills were not worth the money I spent. Savon conducts the environmental tests, but they are also in the business of remediation. After the tests were completed, Ivan sent me the wrong customer report which indicated mold. This created a high degree of stress and trouble for my family. Ivan realized he sent the wrong report then sent the correct one apologizing for the mistake. Ivan said that although there was no excessive mold present, he did suggest I do a cleaning of the A/C system and promptly sent me an estimate for the work, $750. I would have considered hiring him for the A/C work, but wanted first to clear up a serious problem I had with the reporting of the test. It did not have my full name or address on the report (several blanks on HIS paperwork) and was essentially useless to me. I spoke to Taylor at Savon and told her my concerns. Once Ivan realized I may not being using his company for the A/C work, Ivan sent several texts that showed his true customer service skills. After my conversation with Taylor, Ivan sent a text that included the following excerpts: "..... just to let you know when I fill out paperwork it's got nothing to do with you," and then mentioned he could write down anything he wants. Ivan went on to write, "...you need to get all this cleaned so you should find someone to do this because I really don't have the time...." ... I trust if I agreed to pay the $750, Ivan would find the time. I immediately called Ivan to discuss the lack of completeness on his paperwork but he said since I was considering not hiring him he would not listen to anything I said and abruptly hung up the phone. Ivan's performance shows that he is only interested in doing quick work and being paid. Ivan's estimate, which did have my name and address, did have a list of the services to be performed, fogging, ac cleaning, air scrubber but only showed the overall total cost of $750. Ivan said he would send a corrected report but I have yet to receive it. read more

Do not use this company for a mold inspection. Continue reading to make a more informed decision! In order to conduct a sound assessment for the presence of mold in a home, one needs two air samples-one inside the home and the other outside. The spore count outside provides a baseline for which to compare the spore count inside the home to. The two Sav-On representatives who visited our home took one air sample with the doors and windows wide open! This led to a high spore count. The data we were sent made no sense because it was just one sample and there was nothing to compare it to. Sav-On then highly recommended we start remediation as soon as possible based on their nonsensical tests and "professional opinion", which brings me to my next problem. This company also remediates homes (CONFLICT OF INTEREST!). When looking for a mold inspector, make sure you are not dealing with a company that remediates homes. They may alarm you for no reason and make you sign a contract which locks you into using their remediation service. After educating ourselves a little on the inspection process, we went with a second opinion that was more expensive but well worth it. Sure enough the presence of mold was negative (spore count inside the house was 3 versus 150 outside). We also got a thorough analysis of the results indicating possible allergens, water damage indicators... (We had none of these!). Mold is everywhere so don't be alarmed if a few spores are detected in your home. Certain types of mold (Chaetomium, Memnoniella, Stachybtrys, Ulocladium etc.) ARE indicative of water damage so watch out for those! My recommendation would be to analyze the types of mold spores in the lab report yourself and if anything looks questionable, get a second opinion. Good Luck! Hope you have a better experience than I did! read more

do not hire this crooks! they are extremely unprofessional and only charge for visits, they do not perform the work!

Do not use them. May spend time, but don't use any cleaning or deodorizing products. They took a brand new bottle of super concentrate that take off paint and grease off your tires and sprayed the whole bottle on the carpet. Then they LIED about what they took. Said it was empty and they put their own stuff in it. Then next day the carpets smelled so bad. I texted him asked if they use any deodorizer or cleaning products and wouldn't answer my question and actually sent me a text back insulting me. WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE. SKIP THIS COMPANY. read more

Sav On Home Improvement has been serving the valley for over 23 years for mold inspection, testing and removal. They are rated by the Better Business Bureau with an A+ rating and offer emergency service. They will bill your insurance direct and deductibles are waved in most cases. Other services include water damage service, remediation, air sampling, drywall repair, painting, plumbing, electrical, general handyman services, mold testing and mold inspection. read more

I had a horrible experience with this company. They want to do the bare minimum and Ivan is totally unprofessional.I am a renting a home in Casa Grande and the property management called out Ivan Money of Savon Restorations in Chandler AZ. He was late, rude but that is besides the point. He sent out a service worker to repair the outlet, he showed up with a regulare outlet so had to leave and get the right one. I asked him if he was replacing the Dryer plug which was ruined due to the faulty outlet and he said if you want me to. So he took it apart and went and bought the part. He then returned and was going to leave the old burnt box in the wall and we said that is unacceptable so he was told to leave by his boss and he left all the wires exposed and left my dryer plug unattached. The exposed wires are a serious code violation in itself and a licensed contractor should definitely know better. read more