Had a great experience here with Jeff. Took less than 24 hours to get a deal I was happy with and for me to drive off with a brand new jet ski. Very professional and didn't try to screw me over. Would recommend stoping by here if you're in the market! read more

K & W Cycle - 2026 RXT-X 325 - Motorcycle Dealers Near Me - Shelby Township, Michigan

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This place is for I don't what to say i went there with plan to purchase the motorcycle but watch i was little dirty from work and i ask for help one guy ask me what i need i start ask him about the prices he look at me and he said hold on il be back never came bake then i ask one guy was sitting on his office table he said he is helping another customer and i was waiting for him after he was free i start asking him about prices he start walking away buy walking away he is telling me the prices on one bike and he was gone too so this place its fuck up don't do business in this place they looking for people are dress nice but they don't know i can by them read more

If Douchebaggery was a person, you'd find him here as a balding salesman, sit in the left corner first booth. Walked in and wanted info on some bikes on the floor. Guy see me and hides behind his monitor. I walk after a while and ask for prices, he tells me he has to look. Starts punching keys like he is booking a flight ticket. Gets annoyed and throws a random figure my way....yup no thanks. read more

Horrible service!!!!! **HORRIBLE SERVICE*** Resolution found! Bought a new set of rims and tires from Tusk and the problem is gone. Put the rims and tires from the 2023 on my 2019 ranger and that machine has the same problem. Don't go to this place they will not do any favors and they have horrible service!!! See below for the owners BS response Update: your reply to defend your horrible service is a bunch of BS. I have video of it doing it the day I picked it up. After all of the bad reviews for your service department, maybe your company should look in the mirror. I have not received a call from you at all. Maybe try picking up the phone and calling a dissatisfied customer... Maybe you should watch the video on your own Facebook page of the problem occurring (after power washing) https://www.facebook.com/share/p/FH66FfuSvu7hzVAx/?mibextid=WC7FNe K&W Service department has disappointed my expectations. Lack of knowledge is very apparent in the service department. It became very clear that they are just after a quick $$$ and not taking care of a customer. They pretty much deemed nothing was wrong with the machine that would be covered under warranty before they even looked at it. I went to K&W first when I bought 4 machines in the last few years and they had no stock. I purchased them where I could find stock. This was due to Covid I'm sure. I've bought parts from them and I will say their parts guys were on point!! From the experience I am currently having with their service department I can assure that I will NEVER again do business with K&W AGAIN!!! I took a brand new Polaris Ranger that I paid over $40,000 6 months ago because The front end shimmy and shakes like crazy when driving over 35 or 40 miles an hour All the way up to 60 mph. I have a video of it doing it tonight after I picked it up, but I cannot upload video to the review. All I did was drive it down the road like their service department claimed they did. As soon as I got there their service writer up guy Shawn immediately tried blaming On mud being packed in the tires, there's no "mud packed" on the machine. The attached pictures are from what was on the machine from the last ride. It was sand from a trail when it was raining. I Explained to him that it has done it since the first We drove it a mile and a half on the road up north to the trails. Shawn, then tried blaming it on the tires being uneven because I drove it on pavement. The machine only has about 400 miles on it from three long rides we did. I originally was going to have all of my maintenance done for the engine, Transmission, differentials, etc. I told him to hold off until I can see the Diagnosis of the main issue I went in for. This decision stemmed from Shawn persistently going over the diagnostic fee and charges instead of listening to what the machine issues were. One other issue I was having is the drivers door pops open when going over uneven terrain on trails. Their excuse for that one was you need to slam the door extremely hard, Polaris should advertise that when spending over $40,000 on a machine you must slam doors so that they don't open while driving on a trail. I have two other Polaris Rangers that I have never had any issues with. One of them in the picture with the same amount of sand on it with no issues. Shawn called me twice today Blaming it on mud being packed in the tires which None was found. When I disagreed with him on that he went The driving on pavement Defense... I called Polaris and come to find out. Shawn never opened a case or reached out to Polaris at all. Polaris customer service said they would help if they were contacted yet they weren't. I had to call Shawn back and ask him to do so that when I take it to Extreme Powersports in Gaylord, who DOES HAVE a phenomenal Service department, I can try to get reimbursed from Polaris for the $100ish that K&W charged me to do absolutely nothing. read more

K & W Cycle - Owners BS response on Google - Motorcycle Dealers Near Me - Shelby Township, Michigan

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Underwhelming would not begin to properly express my experience. 1 sales guy - did not introduce himself - let's just refer to him as Balded Bearded Lack of a Salesman (BBLS). Walk in - no greeting and no acknowledgement. He was on phone and could not pause that conversation to say he'd be with me in a minute. I was interested in a MULE (6 passenger). He could not sell Kawasaki because of recall. I still wanted to see it. Go outside and it's through gate somewhere out there. Eventually found it and sat in it for size and layout. Also sat in Canam for comparison. I come in - Kawasaki X$ out the door. Accessories will add $10k. What about the CanAm? $25k out the door, superior machine (and likely larger profit margin). Can I spin it? (2 laps around parking lot at 10-15 mph tops).... No test drives allowed. Insurance policy dictates no... WTF - would you buy a new car without a test drive? I'm suggesting they get a new insurance carrier. Felt totally disvalued and perhaps a bother to him. Is not the goal of a business to sell to customers? I will take my cash elsewhere (and I do have it) . I cannot recommend strongly enough for folks to take their business elsewhere. I'd pay an extra grand to another dealer to purchase an identical item and avoid this place. All in all, this place stunk. If they treat you like crap before they have your money, how will they treat you once you are invested in them? read more

I recently was here looking for a unit and had the pleasure of working with Robbie. I have to say, he was awesome! Not only was he helpful in making my purchase, but he was also very patient and kind. He took the time to answer all of my questions and made sure I was comfortable with my decision. Overall I had a great experience thanks to Robbie. He truly went above and beyond to make sure I had a positive experience which was awesome. Highly recommended him to anyone in the market looking for a unit of any kind. Also the parts and service department is awesome as well, I've been dealing with them for a long time with other machines I've got and they've taken care of me well. I'll be back read more

First walk in of the place I was dead mindset on buying the only black 2023 Yamaha mt-03 I could find. Granted I came in early. No salesman had really tried selling me on the bike, but like I said my mind was already set and it was obvious it's what I wanted. But once I showed serious Interest Robbie D stepped to action, got me approved and set me on my way. Took a little ice breaking, but Robbie thank you for selling me the bike and making the process simple! Also he made it clear that he cared for my safety. It is a brand new bike with a 1 year warranty, I have nothing to say about the reliability yet. 5 stars on Robbie A+, but 4 stars because at first I was not treated as a serious inquiring customer, and the bike was prepped with only 2 bars of gasoline. But thank you guys I'm totally a happy customer, and a pleasure to do business, I will be back! Edit 5 stars thank you for response that shows true company values! read more

K & W Cycle - Internet listing Yamaha MT03 - Motorcycle Dealers Near Me - Shelby Township, Michigan

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Excellent service. Professional trustworthy techs. The guys are so patient!! I'll continue to bring my bikes here

Dropped off my Can Am Outlander for service. Shawn Billbury in service took great notes on all of my concerns with my machine. I received automated texts and phone call updates on my status and costs. Even completed the service by the estimated date they gave me, which is a pleasant surprise. Anyone with any experience in the service industry knows how timelines can change depending on the troubleshooting involved. Very happy with the service and overall experience at K&W. read more

Worst customer service they give very bad attitude. Specially the parts department. I spoke with general manager he said he will look into it. I will never come back again. I will take my business somewhere else. read more

What a easy transaction ! the trade in was the price I was looking for. the discount for buying a new 'last years' model was subtracted immediately. all the paperwork was right at my fingertips. Robbie had everything right away and the whole sale was easy ! Oh, n buy the way, the bike looks and runs great ! read more

This place has such bad customer service. We've been after this guy named Jeff to see our status for the credit application and he said we will be in touch, but they never reached out to us, we were the ones who had to reach out to them. Every time I would call he would have a bad attitude with me! We made a previous purchase from them too and I wasn't okay with the customer service but I thought hey, let's try one more time. I left a voicemail twice and no one got back to me. And he been said the credit application only takes an hour to see the result. Again.. it's been three days!!! read more

Worked with Robbie, General Manager to purchase my new Z400. He was great to work with and made things easy. Alex in parts was nice as well, ordered a few add-one as well. Im glad that they are also keeping the place clean. That will make them stand out from other dealers that don't care about their facility. Thanks again. read more

K & W Cycle - Motorcycle Dealers Near Me - Shelby Township, Michigan

Bought a new 2021 Yamaha SRX. 20K! This dealer put a cheapest and smallest tunnel bag on my sled and not the factory advertised bag that is 100% supposed to come with the sled. I was offered no resolution. I have 3 other friends who bought the same sled and received the correct tunnel bag and got a better deal on their sled. This dealership knowingly puts cheaper bags on and I am sure they are taking the correct bags and selling them separately and placing the small bag on the sleds. I am buying a new Viper this year for my wife and I will not be going back here all over a $130 tunnel bag that I was robbed of. Way to keep happy customers you crooks! read more

Jeff was very helpful and accommodating & his attitude was top notch. If you need a motorcycle come see this guy!

Robbie from the sales division is outstanding to work with. Robbie has been incredible from day one. Robbie made ordering my new boat easy and painless and was extremely communicative providing updates and timelines routinely. Additionally Robby provided me a tour of the maintenance/service center upon picking up my boat. You could literally eat off the floor and the mechanic who walked me through my boat was just as impressive. DO NOT BUY A BOAT OR CYCLE FROM ANYONE BUT ROBBIE!!!!!!! read more

Gave the benefit of the doubt but no longer. ... Jeff had someone deliver a known damaged utv, without all of the accessories. We were informed that the sales person delivers the vehicle... clearly, Jeff did not want take responsibility. We asked the guy who delivered the utv to call so we knew Jeff was informed of the damaged good and the fact we did not receive the battery tether and related posts. My husband called a couple weeks after delivery to follow up with Jeff. He said he was aware that we got a damaged vehicle but everything is back ordered, so we would hear from him within 2 weeks. Three weeks later, stoll no follow up. We now have to follow up with the Better Business Bureau for resolution.... We will also be following up with Costco since they referred us to this unethical place..... Avoid this place at all costs!!! read more

I recently purchased a Polaris Sportsman 570 and want to thank K&W for an excellent buyer experience. Personal thank you to Robbie for is expertise on the product and process. read more

So Many things wrong. A few months back I brought in my Yamaha for collision repair. First issue was that it took 2 weeks to get me an estimate. And then over a month to "complete" the repairs After being told it was repaired I came after hours to pick it up. On my drive home my bike overheats. I get home and take it apart to realize 1. It is bone dry on coolant 2. They did not replace the radiator fan. 3 my signals were wired wrong so that left was right and vice versa. I returned the next day rather heated to be told that it was going to cost another $700 to fix it after being told it was complete. Which was absolutely unacceptable. After a few hours of negotiations and getting every manager working involved (as well as, threatening to get my attorney involved.) they completed the job that I had already paid them almost $4,000 for. Needless to say, they will not be getting any return business from me. read more

Terrible service experience. I took my SxS here 5 weeks before a trip to have some issues addressed. They didn't even look at it until they had it for maybe 2-3 weeks after I called before I dropped it off and they said it would be a two week turnaround time. They mis-diagnosed the issue, threw a bunch of new parts at it only to have none of the issues fixed picking it up hours before leaving for a week long trip. The pushed back the repair multiple times and did offer a small discount on parts, but keep in mind these parts did not fix the issue and were already substantially marked up to begin with. This service experience ruined my family vacation and I will never bring a machine back here for repairs or to purchase something new. I took my machine to Ball Equipment in Richmond after returning and being hundreds of dollars in the hole and they test drove the machine at drop off, made sure any parts were ordered right then, and fixed every issue the right way. The service department knew right away what was broke and offered the most cost effective repair without ordering and replacing a bunch of parts that were fine to begin with. read more

Just called about a 2014 Kawasaki Custom 900 Motorcycle. I told the guy I was looking at this bike for over 5 months. Now after selling my Ninja ZX6R this week, I was looking to take this Cruiser for a test drive to ensure it has the power and Fit I am looking for. I have never had problems getting a dealer to test drive a bike for a few miles, especially when I tell the dealer I HAVE CASH IN HAND! However this made no difference. they dealer said no test drives, sorry but not sorry. basically i understand that once any miles are on the bike it is not considered new. BUT HOW THE HELL can anyone just buy a crusier for the first time without EVER test riding one? that is the WORST sales pitch ever. to cap it off the guy hung up on me twice while trying to put me on hold. Guy cant even operate a phone let alone sell motorcycles to interested buyers with Cash in hand. Stay away from this place.... bad vibes all over! read more

With a limited number of Yamaha dealers in Oakland county, K&W has been servicing my ancient motorcycle since I got it. The service is steeply priced, but they get the job done. However, it seems that they wait until the last possible day to inform customers that parts are needed, and it usually results in a lost week. Go in knowing that an extra week might be added as a result of getting an older motorcycle serviced. The guys that work at K&W have always been personable and friendly, and seem to know what they are doing. Although, sometimes they overlook small things like overtightened clutch cables and overfilling oil. Easy to fix, but the oversight makes me worry about the quality of the more major repairs. read more

Don't go here with your PWC. They cost me $1500 for a new engine. Bought two seadoos here 20 yrs ago. Moved up north 2 years later. Kept the Seadoos the whole time and took great care of them- they were in excellent shape. Three years later moved back to the area and happy to find them still in business and providing service on PWC. Not cheap by any means but for a minor repair and winterizing thought they did a decent job. Had a seal fail at the end of last season on one of them and it took on water (not unexpected as they're 20 yrs old). Pulled it right out and took both in to k&w. Asked them to repair that one, winterize and clean them both (that part they did a great job on). Paid a pretty penny when I picked them up and placed them in storage for winter (indoors in a heated facility I might add). Come spring, took them out of storage. One started right up. The other that had a seal problem - no go. Wouldn't turn over. Drained the gas, Bought new battery, plugs, etc nothing worked. Called k & w and they decided not to work on it as they stopped working on any vehicle over 10 yrs old, even though 7 mos ago they did a repair on it. Took some time to get another shop to look at it, but when they did it wasn't good. Bottom line is there was water in the engine that sat in there for over 7 mos. and the engine was rusted out. Advice was to scrap it. Took to another shop, same finding, even pulled the thing apart for $200 and same finding. Finally found a shop that would replace the engine for a reasonable cost so wouldn't have to scrap it. Talked to service dept at k&w and they said it's not their fault. I can't imagine who's it is... Whoever made the repair at k & w never tested it, never fired it up even though they knew it had water in it. Calls to discuss my experience and expense after the replacement were not returned. Shame. Plans were to use them this season and trade in for new ones fall or spring. Cost me money so lost out on a sale which cost them too. read more

Kim is the best. She knows what she's talking about and she's very professional. If it wasn't for Kim I'd give this a 3 star because they don't stock common parts that are normally needed for skidoo sleds. read more

I'm a loyal customer but not nomore. I took the bike that I bought from there for an something they couldn't even figure it out and they charged for basically doing nothing and when I paid the bill and had them deliver my bike back to the house because they couldn't figure it or fix it ! I come to find out that they didn't even put the bike back together as far as parts bolts and everything! How terrible is that... Like at least put it back together and send it back ! Sad thats how they treat loyal customer! And I was thinking of buying the new Vulcan vaquero from there but hell no! I will never give them my business nor should you! Terrible customer service and terrible treatment of customer and high prices plus they really don't know what they doing. NEVER GOING BACK THERE. SO DISAPPOINTING. read more

Here to get a new tire installed. Bought the tire happily but then they charge you $60 per half hour to install it and they of course take their sweet time and took an hour so. kind of stupid especially when you bought the tire from them. These are the sort of sales people who don't care what you buy as long as you're buying from them they could care less about what you actually need. They did give a courtesy call when my bike was done and the shop is clean. Money hungry. read more

Called about parts that they didn't return I'm a disabled person took my 4 wheeler in and parts where not returned manage who answered was very rude when ask where rest of parts were although when they brought 4 Wheeler back the person had to go back and get parts they didn't send back if I would not go there to buy anything. They should not treat customer like that then ask for Manager phone kept ringing called back left message no call back so if a person with disabilities I would not go there there is other places that would treat you better . read more

I brought my boat in knowing that there was a issue with the superchargers. got a call two to three weeks later saying there was nothing wrong with boat and that they test drove it . when i explained what was going on they said they would take boat back out on water .Call #2 they found issues with the supercharges which then told us that they had our boat mixed up someone else. went ahead and had work done there 4500.00 . by the time we got boat back season was over and to cold to test drive it to see if problem was fixed Took boat to indoor storage where we parked it for winter. by the way Dave in service said we would have one month warranty when we put in water upon payment. Today 05-22-2021 i go to marina today to find that inside of boat trash with leafs all over when we bought in with cover also broken engine hood and now no warranty on it per manager Robbie when i spoke to him today but lol if i brought boat back up he would wash and vac. Nothing offered to fix engine hood or at least a 30 warranty on the service they did.Will not recommend this place to know one ! Poor customer service read more

I bought my brand new 2014 r6 from Robbie last year. He got me out riding within one hour of purchase. They have a very knowledgeable parts counter and the techs they have there don't have ass their jobs. They tell you what's broke and why it needs to be fixed or if it can wait a little longer. Won't shop at any other dealer. Can't wait to buy another toy read more

K & W Cycle - Motorcycle Dealers Near Me - Shelby Township, Michigan

Recently bought a bike from this dealer and it immediately need service (strike one). Then they proceed to take 2 weeks to put in O rings in my fork caps, with nothing but excuses. Oh and the entire time it's in service they keep it outside where it proceeds to rain for most of those two week. Why would I want them to ever work on anything of mine if they are going to store it outside in the rain? I store the bike I JUST purchased from them in a garage, and don't appreciate at all that it is left outside (strike two). If I would have known the bike I just paid for was going to be kept in the rain for 2 weeks I would have Negotiated the price accordingly. I finally go to pick the bike up and I'm waiting for them to bring it to the front of the shop and I see the bike porter, get on my bike fire it up, immediately rev the life out of (which most know you shouldn't do to a cold motor) and then disappear with my bike while they try to use an air compressor to dry my seat. He pulls it around and I start looking over the bike, red paint on bolts that weren't there, red marks on my handle bars, and now the bike is making a new noise from god knows like they didn't tighten a bolt somewhere and doesn't ride like the same bike I dropped off 5 days after buying it(strike three, here's your review). Don't even want to take the bike back to have it dealt with because who knows how long they will have it for and what it will come back like. Edit; Tried to Take the bike up to the shop on Monday after "the boss" of k&w sent an email after the first part of the review. My wife calls to make sure they would still be up there as per request by "the boss Robbie" and decided to leave early that day. Even though we told him it would be later in the day seeing as it's one of the days they are open later and we both have day jobs. When we finally get up there Thursday and catch Robbie at work, he denies hearing a noise that both me and my wife can now hear. Robbie we get it, forks don't have to do with the engine, but the bike sitting outside in the rain for 2 weeks with an exposed air filter let's water pool in the cylinders. Last time I checked, water + engine = damage, don't tell me AFTER I get my bike back that you store them outside and that there is a sign posted in service. Fantastic, we were NEVER in the service department until we picked the bike up. We came right into the showroom and dropped the keys off to you, why this wouldn't be verbally affirmed as well as posted is beyond me, apparently in 2019 customer service is dead. Now onto the half ass repair I got on my bike, after this whole dispute with Robbie I took my bike over to a friend at another cycle shop who checked the work done and guess what. The forks were now low on oil and explains all the front end fork noise I was hearing that again Robbie says has nothing to do with the repair they did. Forks were not making the noise before the repair, were leaking a bunch of oil out of the top and you wouldn't think so check the forks oil level!?! This place is an abomination, maybe they should start a go fund me so they could afford a tent to store the bikes in and some real techs. read more

This place was great when I purchased a new Kawasaki Z650 for my husband. Stacey was great in helping me get the financing. I highly recommend this place. read more

Omg I have never been so frustrated with a shop in my life. I came in wanting to buy a machine and the salesman did everything to try not to sell me one. I am amazed at the stupidity I just encountered. I will never be back here again and yes, I ended up buying a machine elsewhere. .....no clue what the malfunction is here. read more

I wish I could give this place a negative score. Worst possible experience ever!! I'm sitting here talking to two other guys I work with who can't talk badly enough about this place. "That place sucks!!!" "You didn't know how horrible they were?!!" "I went there once and never again" I'm not making this stuff up people!! I had to rebuild a carb and went there for the rebuild kit as my bike is completely stock. Although the rebuild kit came with no instructions, nor was I referred to their website when handed it, I wasn't concerned as I have the service manual. I rebuilt the carb flawlessly and still had a problem; ran out of ideas and didn't have the right tools to troubleshoot further (timing, compression test) so I took the bike there for some assistance. I was told 2-3 days, which turned into me calling them three different times for updates and it ended up taking a week and a half. The solution? They put different jets in the carb and replaced the brand new spark plug I had in it when I dropped it off. The wrong jets were in the rebuild kit they sold me and still charged me for an hour and a half labor ($105/hr) in case your interested in how much they'll rip you off. Then they told me how I'm still saving money cause they discounted my total 10% and how I didn't even get charged for the 2nd full hour!!! The service rep told me I should have checked that the right jets were used and how I prob did something wrong; he was an idiot, to put it nicely. To top it all off, there were two muffler bolts still missing I asked to be replaced that never got addressed. I'll never do business here or suggest anyone else to either. Very unprofessional, incompetent, and greedy business practices sums this place up. read more

Put a deposit down a quad. Few weeks later I had to put that money into repairing my basement after it flooded and when I reached out multiple times to get my deposit back, no answer read more

I always use K & W for my personal watercraft, they have never given me a reason not to want to go there. Timely service and good repair. I had brought my PWC to another repair shop in the West Bloomfield area and they completely wrecked my machine, K & W was able to fix their mistakes quickly so I could use the watercraft that weekend. read more

So I stopped into K&W looking for a snowmobile suit. Brain lynch got me in and out within 20 minutes. When I needed a plate for my trailer he stayed over to make sure I had it for my weekend. Awesome service. read more

I have always been impressed with the service counter. Parts arrive when promised and the staff seems knowledgable and friendly!

Jeff the sales manager and Stacey in finance made every single step of working with K&W as easy as possible. Step by step the did everything they could to make us happy. They went out of their way to make a sale and actually wanted to help us. I cannot thank them enough for helping us get our first Sea Doo. read more

DO NOT BUY A USED BIKE FROM THIS PLACE!!! I recently purchased a used bike and was offered an after market warranty since the manufacturers warranty was void. I had the bike no more than 5 days and noticed the forks were leaking. Called to have them look at the bike so we took it up there. When we dropped the bike off (Saturday) I was told it would be looked at on Tuesday. Called on Tuesday and they said "the tech called in". It wasn't until Friday that they looked at the bike and said the fork o-rings were not covered by the warranty. I then asked for the warranty information and the pamphlet that wasn't given to us said seal were covered. So why weren't they covered? This place doesn't even know what they are selling for warranties! I then looked at the contract and it does say that seals aren't covered. So which is it? Finally we were told that the warranty covered it after K&W called. Which the sales person said she did then the sales manager said he did so again, another lie. Every time we called to get an update there was some excuse as to why is wasn't done. After waiting 2 weeks and continuously being lied to the bike was "fixed".During this time period the bike sat outside and it rained almost every day!! I have a cloth seat so when it was picked up, I had to ride home on a completely saturated seat. Finally picked up the bike and now there is a new sound. Called to have that looked at and we were being rushed to have it up there the next day. I have a day job so that wasn't going to work but I tired anyway and when I called to say I was on my way the sales manager (who asked me to come up) had left for the day. . Got the bike up there to be looked at and pretty much was treated like garbage. Store manager proceeded to tell me on how THEY DO NOT LOOK AT THE BIKES BEFORE BEING SOLD only when taken in and prior to purchasing the bike we were told that it had been gone through, again another lie. Well my bike was taken in 1 year ago. He then said that the seal could've gone bad while in storage. Wouldn't you catch that if you checked it out before selling it? Seems like all they want is the money and don't care about customer service. Again, DO NOT BUY A USED BIKE FROM HERE!! read more

Awesome service!!!!! Great price and the most professional staff I have ever seen. I cannot say enough good things about Robbie and K & W. I found a can am spyder on line and I contacted Robbie, he gave me a price that was truly unbelievable. He explained everything and walked me through the process even though it was his day off; true professional devoted and dedicated. He jumped through hoops to ensure I was happy and got the deal processed quickly. He explained ways to save on financing and ensured he took care of everything, while being upfront and honest. Once I completed the deal he continued to exceed my expectations by helping me resolve issues I had with my states DMV. He is a true professional and a real class act. K&W earned my business and I plan on buying from them in the future. read more