They always take great care of our Po'okela. Pohai and the staff are great and genuinely love the animals they care for. They are very patient with our Kela boy. She is on it when it comes to his allergy medications and my husband's detailed instructions. She even experimented with different ways to feed him effectively after his partial jaw removal. I highly recommend Koolau Bed and Biscuit! read more

My only regret is that we didn't find the Koolau Bed and Biscuit sooner. We were moving off the island and needed somewhere to board our dogs for the 10 days leading up to the move. The staff is warm and extremely accommodating to whatever your pets need. They were on top of the medications for our dogs, and dealt with the very restrictive diet one of our dogs had due to allergies. We even picked them up for a vet appointment halfway through their stay, and both dogs seemed happy and healthy. I can't recommend them enough, and would absolutely board our dogs there again. They really do care about your pets like you do. Thanks Koolau Bed and Biscuit! read more

My very beloved dogs have happily and safely enjoyed boarding at Koolau many, many times, during more than the past decade! Peace of mind is foremost whenever I travel -- knowing my precious pets will be safe and will be cared for kindly. My two Papillons love spending time at Koolau. They have stayed at Koolau for dozens of times, including lengthy 19+ -day stays and many extended-weekend visits. (My now-deceased King Charles Cavalier enjoyed Koolau, too.) Koolau's facility is clean and secure and the owner has decades of experience in dog training and dog care (and, also, dog breeding). Experience and active participation in the "dog world" is extremely important for a kennel-owner. I personally have known this owner for over a decade, through our shared love of AKC dog agility training and competition; we've met on the AKC agility field. I trust her to recognize any dog health issues. Once, she spotted an illness in one of my dogs and then made sure that he was transported to our local veterinarian for care. Koolau's careful checking of vaccinations gives me reassurance that my dogs will not be exposed to unvaccinated pets who carry viruses. Not all boarding kennels require proof of vaccinations. My pets always return home healthy, happy and clean, and, their bedding is freshly washed, too. The dogs' kennel runs allow room for their favorite bedding and favorite toys, and the grassy play yard is a plus. I highly recommend Koolau Bed and Biscuit! Aloha from Hawaii, Pam Garrison read more

We always take our pups to KBB when we vacation. The facility is clean and secured, they have a huge yard for the dogs to run in. The facility is great and my pups get excited when we drive up! Staff do a great job with them and always keep us informed. One of my pups was drinking an unusual Amount of water and they notified us right away so we could have her checked out. The owner is very knowledgeable on behaviors and wellness, is a dog breeder and trainer as well. They are always extremely flexible for last minute drop offs as well. Although we have never had a problem, they book up over breaks so reserve early!! read more

I was originally referred to Ko'olau Bed and Biscuit by a friend that uses them. He and his wife use Koolau Bed and Biscuit and swear by them. I'm very protective of my fur kids and worry when I leave them overnight somewhere. Not all dogs take to boarding, though. So, check out the facility and even ask if you can bring your dog over for a night before you leave them there for an entire week. Some dogs just freak out when they are out of their home environment. Concerned a bit by some of the reviews, before boarding the first time I visited their facility in Kaneohe and was immediately impressed. I certainly don't get the bad reviews. This is by far the cleanest and most organized. I met one of the staff members when I got there and also talked to Cheryl. Cheryl and her staff were business like, polite, and professional. Cheryl and Kelly have excellent credentials with the local dog community and veterinarians. Cheryl assured me that they keep an eye on each and every dog and insure that they remain healthy and are eating/drinking well. She has also raised and trained my own breed (Siberian Huskies) and so understands how active and stubborn they are. Their facility is beautiful. They have a separate room for the large dogs and the small dogs. Each room is air conditioned, comfortable, and has a lot of natural light. They have large exercise pens out back and a park and play area in the front. They do require a certificate of vaccinations from your vet and you should ensure that your dog is current on heart worm as well as flea/tick treatment. This is just common sense if you are taking your dogs outside of your own house. They do have a policy that dogs with bad dispositions or that are aggressive towards strangers will not be boarded. This is not a problem with my dogs since they are well socialized toward people and other dogs. They do have a "per day" charge which is charged for each day that they have your dog. The fee is rather reasonably when compared with other boarding locations. They also offer grooming and bathing services, which I recommend. It is always nice to pick your dogs up and have them nice and clean when you take them home. My dogs seemed to love their experience at Koolau Bed & Biscuit and I feel like they are in good hands when I leave them there. It would be nice if they had some doggie cams that people could use to remotely view their pets but I'm very happy with the facility. Since my initial experience with Ko'olau Bed & Biscuit, I have stayed in touch with their staff on dog training, rescue, and obedience issues and have always been impressed by their knowledge. read more

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I had my dog stay here recently and would recommend it to everyone. Staff was professional and facilities are clean. Great staycation for your furry loved ones. read more

I submitted a boarding request online, no one ever called me. When I called they said they thought I had already booked so they didn't contact for confirmation, fine. I came in a few days before I was to drop off my dog to check the place out and he still wasn't booked. Thankfully they "had space." They showed me where he would sleep, a small room with a low wall and open top. Evidently those are only used for smaller dogs, so my dog (35ish pounds) was moved to a larger gated kennel. That's where he was when I came to pick him up. My dog acts very dramatic when he's locked in spaces like that. He also hates being alone, so I'm sure he put on quite the performance. They gave him a bath as promised before I arrived. My dog seemed to like the women that work there. The owner emailed me to explain that the dogs get socialized and have exercise about 4 times daily when I expressed initial dissatisfaction. So if you have any questions, definitely get in touch with him. read more

A few years ago, my fiancee and I left our dog at Ko'olau Bed and Biscuit when we went on a trip to Las Vegas. We chose them based on the alleged background of the owner/operator of the facility. She was supposedly well-versed in handling dogs and dealing with situations problematic to having other people's dogs at a boarding facility. Unfortunately, this is far from true. On the second day of the trip, my fiancee received a call from the owner of KBB, Cheryl, who said that our dog was scared and wouldn't eat. Seeing the look on my fiancee's face as she spoke on the phone, I asked her what was wrong. She handed me the phone and told me who was calling. I took the phone and asked Cheryl what the problem was. Cheryl said that our dog had growled at the worker who had tried to feed her and told me that someone had to come and pick up the dog immediately. I told her, "If there was someone available to come and pick up the dog, why would we have left her with YOU?" Cheryl avoided answering that question and also said that as a result of my dog's behavior, she would not be let out of her kennel for designated extra play times, despite the fact that we had paid additional fees for it. To say that I was upset at this point would be a MASSIVE understatement. I told Cheryl that there was no one that could pick up my dog, she was responsible for my dog's care until the pre-arranged pick-up date and that's what she was paid for. She hung up on me and I must've turned 20 shades of red before I calmed down. When we got back home, I couldn't wait to get over there to pick up our dog. We walked in and saw Cheryl. When she heard the name of the dog we were picking up, her attitude turned from indifferent to downright rude. When we walked into the kennel area, I walked down the row of kennels, looking for my dog as Cheryl lagged behind. Not once did she offer any assistance whatsoever in locating my pet. When I found my dog, I noticed the door to the kennel was not the kind I was familiar with. I looked at Cheryl and asked her if she wanted me to go in and get my dog and she snapped, "Well, WE'RE certainly not going to get her out!" I replied, "Well then, you'd better open the gate." (At that moment I almost kicked the gate in but I restrained myself.) Cheryl opened the kennel and I got my dog and left. I couldn't get out of that place and away from that horrible woman fast enough. In a nutshell, this was one of the most unprofessional customer service experiences I've EVER had, in ANY industry. As others have already said in their reviews, Cheryl is rude and arrogant. How one attains that level of arrogance in an occupation that she is obviously not well-suited for is beyond me. For a woman who claims to be great with dogs, she left a LOT to be desired. Oh, and if anyone out there thinks I'm being a little too hard on Cheryl because I'm just an overprotective pet owner and don't know what it's like to deal with dogs with behavioral issues...I'd also like to mention that I work with dogs for a living. As such, I know EXACTLY what it's like to deal with a dog that isn't well behaved or one that growls at a stranger. It's not a big deal...if you know what you're doing (but it's painfully obvious that Cheryl doesn't have a clue.) Save yourself the headache and stress, avoid Ko'olau Bed & Biscuit at all costs! read more

Thank you to the staff at Bed and Biscuit who were so accommodating to our baby, Ziggy. Took him on a moments notice while I was in the air when my original dog sitter flaked. We were gone for 7 days and Ziggy seems so happy and well taken cared of. We will definitely be bringing him back!!! Mahalo Koolau Bed and Biscuit!!! read more

the actual facility is beautiful and is a nice place for dogs. the owner, however, is not the friendliest or most helpful person. She was rude on the phone and did not have a customer/client friendly attitude. It's nice that she's great with dogs and all (so ive read), but the owners are the ones who are footing the bill so some pragmatic skills might be nice on her part. the employees seem really nice and helpful but the owner, based on her demeanor, is a shrewd old lady. I would NOT recommend this place. also, the dogs were returned with ticks on them. :( ive also spoken with some employees (current and former) who have all complained about the management. read more

Well I went today as I said I would to interview the place an possibly consider boarding them there while getting married. Cement rooms although air conditioned do not allow dogs to visit even thru maybe a thick plastic partition with other dogs. Looked like cement prisons. Only 2 areas to pee. Outside on cement or a grass area not to large. The worse is that dogs are left alone from 6:00 pm to 7:00 am the next day...My dogs have a scheduled time they pee an poop practically. They would be alone all night 13 hours in a small cement prison. They would be damaged emotionally. Therefore I gladly rejected considering placing my babies there. Although people have dogs there. I can never imagine mine. We will sacrifice and come home from the hotel or pay extra to keep them with us. Property is beautiful like a Forrest and the staff was nice. I guess the owners live in the front house. What involvement they have other than money and wages I don't know. If first impressions are lasting it an F. But that's me I boarded my dogs on the mainland. Large staff that walked them even at night and web cameras. Total transparency and kennels that don't smell. Sterilized daily. Again that's me. I did visit so I can comment now, 45 min drive to interview the kennel 2-4 read more

We were going on vacation and called them since its located near our home. I left a voicemail, and when Cheryl called me back, she was horribly rude and unprofessional - at first I thought it was a joke until I realized she was serious! I asked her standard questions about cost, etc. When I mentioned that our dog is older, 12 years old, she said "oh we cannot take him." I asked why and she replied that, "he's too old, he might die." Any dog lover would be horrified by this answer - and I was speechless! After a pause I said I hope not, and told her he is in perfectly good health with no issues! She replied that they only "accept young healthy dogs because the old ones can die." Shocked, I could not think of anything else to say accept thank her for the info and hang up. I'm so grateful that I never used Koolau and posted so others are aware of my experience. There are other companies out there that are more customer focused, would love your business, and more importantly - will take great care of your family member/dog..young or old. This is not the place I would want to leave mine! read more

If I could give a negative star rating, I would. I have been a loyal customer of KBB for months now. I was pleased with their handling of my deaf pittie and how accommodating they were with last-minute requests. Each staff member I encountered was so pleasant and really seemed to have an affinity for the animals in their care. However, the recenservice my husband received when dropping off and (attempting to) pick up our dog was nothing short of atrocious. The older woman mentioned in other reviews did our dog's intake and had neglected to note down that she was coming (we had reserved a spot a week prior) and then berated my husband for bringing a dog without a reservation. Luckily, the staff realized her mistake and allowed our dog to stay. When we attempted to pick up the dog today, we must have gone to the office during their lunch hour but the sign on the door said "We are Open, please come in" and the door was unlocked. My husband encountered the older woman again and AGAIN was verbally bashed for coming in while they were closed. We were denied the ability to pick up our dog (understandable, they were closed after all). The treatment we received does not inspire confidence that our pup is being treated well and due to this fact, we will not continue to give them our business. It's a shame too, because we would have been happy to continue to refer others to KBB but for these customer service nightmares. **Edited: the manager of KBB responded immediately and truly bent over backward to rectify our experience. For this I have changed my rating and review, understanding that one individual CAN change your experience in either direction. I'm still disappointed in the older lady, but pleased with the rest of the staff. Our dog came home clean, happy, and with trimmed nails (something I can't manage to do without wrestling and pinning her down) and I appreciate the effort put forth for service recovery. :) read more

It's not the best quality kennel but it will do in a pinch. The good. It's in a really nice location and the dogs have a big area to run around in. The staff here was friendly. The bad. My 70 pound dog lost 7 pounds during the 20 days that he was with them. They groomed my dog without asking me and billed me for it. I would like the option of consenting to additional charges. When I picked up my dog the owner was a bit rude. Nothing major but she just wasn't very nice. Other. They want you to call before you stop by to visit your dog. Other Kennels I've taken him to were okay with you stopping by when ever they were open to check on your pet. read more

My dog has ,major allergy and need the special attention and on top of that my dog is French Bulldog and need to be a cool place( short nose!). Koolau Bed and Biscuit takes really good care of her with special attention. It is in the cool area of Kahalu and place is always clean and very friendly staff with professional knowledge. My dog loves that place !! I highly recommend Koolau Bed and Biscuit. Even I drive from Ewa all the way, I do not mind at all! read more

This was the worst experience ever!!! The "owner" was rude. When I say rude I mean I was almost afraid to leave my dog with her. I figured since she was 'older' she may simply be a little rough around the edges, and I caved. I picked my dog up and he was badly hurt and only walking on 3 legs. My poor little dog could put no weight on his leg at all. I was then told rudely by the owner that it was my dog's fault because he was "jumping" too much. Later I found after a trip to the vet that was NOT the cause of my dog's injury. The 'owner' then told my husband and I that my dog had "been limping for 4-5 days." AND yes folks that is with the vet on call, and with no call to us telling us of his condition. My dog's food was also changed without our knowledge which caused vomiting and a great amount of discomfort in subsequent days to follow his stay at Ko'olau Bed & Biscuit. I DO NOT recommend this place!!!!!!!!!!! read more

My dogs *love* the staff at Ko`olau Bed & biscuit. That's the best endorsement. My two dachshunds (now deceased) had a bad experience at another kennel and were fearful of the staff. After one visit at Ko`olau Bed *& Biscuit, my dogs were happy to follow the staff to their kennel, wagging tails as they trotted *away* from me! I have confidence that the staff treats my dogs at least as well as I treat them. My dog Layla is energetic and friendly with people & dogs. The staff report that she is "fun" and don't complain that she is sometimes unruly. They understand dogs. They reinforce proper behavior and kindly correct naughty behavior. Health and safety practices are outstanding at Ko`olau Bed & Biscuit. The staff disallows interaction with other dogs until they are confident that the dogs are friendly with each other. The facility is secure, with multiple doors & gates to reduce the chance my dog (or yours) could escape and get lost or hit by a car. Vaccinations are required. The facility is clean and well-maintained. Concrete is easy to keep clean and disease-free, although it's not pretty. This is a kennel, not a hotel. Ko`olau permits me to bring a crate, blankets, toys, food dishes, etc. so that my dog feels at home. The big-yard playtime incurs an extra fee, but I request two play-times a day so my Layla can burn off some of that energy. It's worth the expense to me. I wouldn't mind if someone was rude to me, as long as my dog is treated well, but the staff has always been polite and welcoming to me. I highly recommend Ko`olau Bed & Biscuit. read more

This is the world place ever. Arrogant, rude owners. I cook for my dogs and left them with all the food needed. We picked our dogs up at 10 AM and only one of our three dogs had been fed. read more

This place has much potential but there is ZERO aloha :( I left our dog with them for 9 days. My wife took him a month in advance so Cheryl could meet him and ensure he would be a good fit. The meeting was very brief and I'm unsure how she assessed him but nonetheless she said he would do just fine so I booked his stay. When I dropped him off I mentioned the free photo they advertise but I never received one. It seems small but upon not hearing from them or receiving a photo of him, I decided to call and check in-twice. Once, the third day we were gone, and the second time the day before we returned. The girl I spoke with on the phone (Cherie) was so kind. She assured me he was shy but that things were going well. He hadn't had any accidents and hadn't barked along with any of the dogs. She stated he had warmed up to her and she was helping out with him when it came time to go outside twice a day. I considered this to be really great customer service. She knew who my dog was and was honest about how he was adjusting. When we arrived back in HNL we were two hours behind due to plane malfunctions and had just gotten off the plane ride from hell. We called to notify that we were rushing on our way there to beat closing time (6pm) but we may be 10mins late at the max, the girl I spoke with was ok with it and sympathetic to our flight delay. I apologized profusely for cutting it so close and felt bad she was going to be waiting on me. Once we were headed up the hill I called again to notify that we were less than 5mins away, at this point it was 5:57pm, and Cheryl answered this time. She was quick to tell me that the employee I spoke with was new and shouldn't have told me that, in a rude tone. I said, "thank you very much for staying after and I greatly appreciate it" just to be responded to with a "click" of the phone, I brushed it off as her being grumpy about us coming right at 6 pm and maybe holding things up. I walked in the door at 6:04 pm again apologizing profusely and she stated again very sternly that we had been misinformed by a new employee that we could arrive at 6 pm and that he "was a problem the entire time" I apologized again and asked what kind of problem he was? She stated he wouldn't let anyone near him the whole time he was there. I found that odd because every time we called we were told he was fine? To us the point of an emergency contact would've been to call that individual if our dog had been an inconvenience. After my counseling was done with Cheryl I just wanted to get my dog out of there! I think this property is beautiful and Cheryl is clearly bright and experienced with dogs. But there was no "thanks for your business" or during the phone calls, "see you when you get here." There was no aloha and for people who consider pets to be family I think that is what is needed when picking a place to board your fur baby. read more

Cheryl (owner) is very much a part of the dog community here in Hawaii. She's a trainer, competitor and dog lover. Always very helpful at trials and her dogs are happy and willing to work for her. She runs a tight ship at KBB. She is very strict on vax requirements and condition of the dogs she takes in. My dogs go CRAZY when they realize where I am taking them. They LOVE it at KBB. And I can relax knowing Cheryl is watching over them. I like the fact the dogs are in their own cinder-block runs. If your dogs are next to a fence fighter - what can you do in a chain-link run? At least the cinder-block prevents that issue. I give KBB 4 stars only due to price. She charges by the day - not by the night. So you pay for 2 days even if your dog is only there for one night. I understand this practice but with 2 dogs, it hits you where it hurts. I'd appreciate a discount for an evening drop off/morning pick up - perhaps 50% off day 2? read more

I have boarded my pugs there three times. the worst part of vacation is worrying about my dogs. This last time I dropped them off they ran in with joy once we got there (they have absolutely never done that at any other facility). I started coming here after my vet recommended them. one of the techs at my vet highly recommended them as she worked with them years ago and said they cared so much about the well being of the animals. I was hesitant given some of the negative reviews but the tech asked me to reread them, they were more about personality conflicts than anything else. she assured me the owners and staff loved dogs and cared for them with great care/attention and that she would take her dog there. I am so glad I took her advice. My Pugs are are so happy to go there and I am am at peace on vacation knowing they are in good hands. I believe everything Cheryl says to people (including me) is with the dogs best interest at heart - and some cannot handle straight forward truth. but I would rather my pugs be with someone who cares enough to speak up for them than not. I am very happy to have found Koolau Bed and Biscuit. Thank you Cheryl and staff. from the lady with the 3 pugs (two are brothers). read more

My dogs have stayed at Bed & Biscuit more than 20 times from anywhere from a couple of days to just over a week. I am extremely thankful to know they're in trusted hands and I am free from worry when we travel. Our dogs are our "children" and therefore their care is very important to us. I highly recommend Ko'olau Bed & Biscuit! : ) read more

Hugo III is my second dog being a loyal and satisfied customer at the Ko'olau Bed and Bisquit. Both my dogs enjoyed their stay at the facility and the service was excellent. Hugo III is always looking forward going for a "hotel stay". The owner and her staff have always been friendly and professional, the owner also gave me good advise in dog care. All the criticism in some of the reviews is ridicolous, some of those dog owners shouldn't even have dogs... Both, my dog and I are happy customers and always ( several times a year) go back to Cheryl's facility. read more

Best dog boarding on Oahu. We have used them for over 4 years and trust them. It is located in the Koolau foothills, has large boarding areas and a large dog run area. The owner and workers are very friendly and courteous. They remember me when I call and know my dog. I highly recommend them. read more

We have used them on a number of occasions and have always been extremely happy. Each dog has been well taken care of. Rico couldn't wait to get inside when we arrived. read more

I was nervous to board here after reading the reviews but all the other kennels were full so I took a chance. Some dogs will do fine here, some dogs will not. We have two dogs and one did fine as far as we know, but the other one, which is normally fine at our regular kennel, did very poorly here. I think this is due to a number of factors, including that the kennel doors are solid and the dogs cannot see out, so it is like being in a tiny room with the door shut, which some dogs do not like. Also, there are several ladies that work here and some dogs may not like having different people taking care of them all the time. The good: Dogs were alive when we picked them up, with no fleas or ticks or worms or such, and rather clean even though they were not bathed. The staff was friendly to us. The kennel did look like the pictures. The bad: One of our dog's eyes were bloodshot like I've never seen them before and apparently this can happen when a leash is too tight or used too aggressively. (I was told that the kennel owner is known to use aggressive training techniques and some people have dropped out of her classes; I do not know if any of these techniques were used on my dog.) One of our dogs was not happy here and I was told he even growled! At our regular kennel, I am told he is super laid back and there are never any issues, so he was uncomfortable and scared to be at Koolau B&B, which I feel terrible about. They do not appear to clean the poop in exercise area after each dog, rather waiting for it to accumulate a bit, so it is not as hygienic in that respect, that your dog can step in another dog's poop when going out. This kennel may work fine for some folks, as evidenced by the positive reviews, but will not work for some folks (hence the negative reviews.) If you do try this kennel and your dog is not happy here, do not think that your dog cannot be boarded or happy at any kennel, regardless of what Cheryl, the owner, tells you. Try another reputable kennel because it may be the kennel environment that makes all the difference to your dog. read more

My wife and I have used Ko'olau Bed and Biscuit several times over the last 10 years. Service has always been excellent. Staff is friendly and our dogs try to go to the play yard rather than our car on pickup. We have a golden and a min pin so both are higher energy and they seem happy. I've read the reviews, both positive and negative and have come to a conclusion. Most people who are happy with the service never leave a review. The few who have a complaint do. I can't speak to the validity of negative reviews, but I can attest that my family has full confidence with this boarder who comes highly rated from breeders across the island. read more

I didn't have time to look for another place before a trip to the mainland, so I left my dog here for 5 days. While I was gone, I was so worried about my dog because the owner didn't even seem to like dogs - she probably runs the business only for money. She was very rude. She never said please, sorry, or thank you, nor did she even speak in a friendly tone of voice. The whole time I was talking with her, I felt like I was in the military and being commanded by my boss. I don't know how she can continue to run her business with that kind of attitude. When I picked up my dog around 2 PM, no dog had water or food in their bowls. I see someone's review saying that the owner gave her discount, however, I left my pet in the evening and she charged me for a full day. The lady who left this review is probably a friend of the owner. read more

When we dropped our dog off at KBB, we were impressed with the facility. It looked bright, clean & spacious. The owner was a little short with us and was not very friendly, but for lack of time to find another place we dropped off our dog anyway. When we picked him up, he was fine and appeared to have been well taken care of. However, the owner was very rude yet again and for that we will not be returning our dog to this facility. So, do I think that the owner takes good care of the dogs? Yes. Do I think the owner lacks some major people skills? Yes. Would I recommend you take your dog there? Only if you don't care about the customer service aspect of it. read more

I leave my 3 dogs with Cheryl at least 3x a year, I feel good knowing they are safe and cared for. The dogs are all together, and while I'm sure they would rather be with us, I have never had a bad experience at Koolau Bed and Biscuits. There has never been any injury associated with their stay, and they are bathed and exercised. I recommend taking any special food so your dogs diet stays the same. My dogs are very active, and are always exercised at my request. I would recommend this place to anyone. read more

DO NOT USE THIS PLACE! Simply HORRIBLE! A house of horrors for pets and pet owners especially if you own a mixed breed dog. My old neighbor who own a purebred dog uses this place and they never had problem, so I decided to give a try. A wrong idea!!! Whne my husband and I dropped our dog, the owner of the facility (middle aged woman) did checked-in and she asked me what kind of dog we have. I have explained that we have adopted him from the shelter and not sure what he is, but a lot of people thinks he is a toy fox terrier/chihuahua mix. The owner stated that the toy fox terrier does not have UGLY appearance like my dog! I couldn't believe what she said about my dog but, she did. She also went on and on about how wonderful to have purebred dogs instead of poi dogs. Also, I packed his favorite snacks, but it was never given to him....(I have asked about snacks upon making the reservation and I was told that they would take care of that). Thank goodness I only need to uset this place for one night. I WILL NEVER USE THIS FACILITY EVER AGAIN! WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER. read more