We were VERY impressed with this resort! We just concluded our family reunion I wasn't sure what to expect since our rate was extremely reasonable per night and it included breakfast. The kids loved the water park, mini golf, & play ground. Our rooms were very nice and super clean. My only complaint was our refrigerator wasn't very cold even after talking to the front desk about it. We needed to keep breast milk cold and the refrigerator wasn't cold enough so we had to keep switching out ice which is why I've only given 4 stars. We will definitely be back!!! read more

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This resort was a HUGE disappointment. According to the pictures the recreation areas were much nicer. When there is an extra charge for absolutely everything one expects that the resort is kept up to very high standards. The resort decor is outdated and the property is less than a $180 a night hotel should be. We were charged extra for the water park access and breakfast. The resort made you walk through a gift shop to get to the restaurant. The food was average- the same thing every morning. No omelets. Got room service. It came quickly and the kids liked the food just fine. Very few healthy options. Would I come back here again? Probably not. It's far off the beaten path and it's obvious that the member-owners are the preferred group at this resort. read more

The lodges are wonderful: + Jacuzzi in the bedroom. + Super huge showers with rain shower head. + Tons of storage space + Great patio with rocking chairs and outdoor dining area + Double fireplaces Extra Perks: + Small mini golf course for a quick (and free) round of fun. + Great pool play area for the kids + Awesome line-up of family activities everyday of the week + Can purchase Silver Dollar City tickets for a special rate (2 days for the price of 1) read more

A great place to stay with kids! The indoor water park isn't big, but it's impeccably clean and has lots for little ones. We visited in the winter, and will be back in summer when the outdoor water doo-dads can be explored. Friendliest staff in Branson, with huge, clean, fresh rooms. read more

Welk Resorts - Branson - Indoor water park - Performing Arts Near Me - Branson, Missouri

Just did a 4 night stay at the Lodges. We loved it. We stayed in a one bedroom villa with my wife and two kids. The kids slept on the pull out couch and we had the master bedroom. The fire places were wonderful, the view was great and we loved the decor. We all really enjoyed the Splashatorium. Some of the mini golf holes are impossibly difficult, though. The market at the front desk doesn't have much. We did our shopping at Country Mart and Wal-Mart. We needed some cookie oil to make blueberry muffins, and forgot to grab it at the store. Turns out, that pantry store at the shell where Champagne Blvd meets the highway sells it, and a lot more. We bought with Welk at their Escondido property in California, and can't wait to visit Branson again. A note to parents about the Splashatorium: If you child wears diapers, they do not allow Little Swimmers. They require Swimsters (if you can find them.) If you can't find them, no worries, they sell them right there at the concessions stand inside the splashatorium. They do not sell them at the market at the front desk. read more

This resort has been by far the best resort we have stayed in around Branson and possibly anywhere in the United States. The rooms are so clean and they're very accommodating to families with children. I have to add that the staff is amazing from when we checked in to housekeeping to needing anything they've taken care of others asI would like to give a big shout out to the staff that they love their job and they do a great job doing it. High five!! The pool is also amazing and you can feel comfortable lounging around and playing with your children. Thank you so much for this enjoyable stay we will for surely come back read more

Fun times till be had by all. We didn't actually stay at the resort we went to the Price is Right Live show. It was really a neat show. For sure a must see. They give away real prizes and the audience is encourage to play along like they do on TV. It is a little bit different than the one on TV but you actually play Plinko and the mountain man and hole in one. So on your next trip to Branson make this a to do list for the whole family. read more

Hands down- the worst experience I have ever had a hotel. My husband's grandparents have their family reunion in Branson every year. They pay for all of the rooms for all 40ish of us. We weren't arriving until late, so they had already checked us in and had our keys up front. We arrived at 1am, got our keys, and headed down to our room. We had been traveling for hours and were dead tired. The keys didn't work. I Trekker back upstairs, she rescanned them, and then I went back down. Still didn't work. Back up I go. New keys. New scan. Back down- no dice. Back up I go. She decides that it must be because the battery on the door is going dead. She said maintenance will fix it at 7am when they come in, and for now.... Her key will override it and let us in. So she walked us down and let us in. Please be clear- we had no key. No way to go out and then come back in. Why not just give us a new room!?!?! At 9am when we were leaving for the day, we try the keys again. Didn't work. We went to the front desk and they said maintenance will get it shortly. Beyond frustrating- we seriously have no way of getting in and out of our room. If we wanted in our room, we had to wait for a front desk employee to be free and able to take us down. We left for the day and returned around 4pm. I know it's hard to believe... BUT OUR KEYS STILL DID NOT WORK. We were exhausted. I ran back upstairs. The lady at the front was clueless- as was the maintenance worker. He said it's probably just a bad key (haven't we done this already?) and had new ones made. I told him it wasn't going to work, so he agreed to go down with me. Shocker- the new keys didn't work. He said the lock has malfunctioned and needs to be reprogrammed. He used his override key to let my husband in. I went with the maintenance guy- I wasn't going in that room again until I had a key that worked. Back up we go. He went to speak the manager (I assume) and the manager came out to get the programmer. While there, I clearly expressed my frustration at this entire situation. I asked him if they were fully booked and he responded, "No, not at all. Why do you ask?" I expressed my frustration that we weren't just given a new room last night. He never apologized. Not once. Back downstairs- this time with the programmer in hand. He plugs it in and goes to work. While he is working on it, the maintenance manager stops by. Now this man... Was wonderfully nice and extremely apologetic. The other guy fumbles with the door for about 5 minutes... I this point, the lock has completely broke. HIS key won't even the door. I'm glad my husband was inside, because we would have had our belongings locked inside. At this point, the maintenance manager suggests we go upstairs and get a new room to switch to. I wait in a chair while he goes and speaks to the manager on duty, or whatever joke of a title that man held. He got us a new room and we moved. Now- this entire time, I was only ever apologized to by the maintenance manager. They other man in charge.... Nothing. Did he offer anything for compensation for all of this? Free room? Free show tickets? Free breakfast? Of course not. Worst customer service I have ever seen. His grandparents paid for SEVERAL rooms AND a banquet room for a wedding reception for my husband and I tonight. If that wasn't all bad enough, there were about 9 baby roaches (or something similar) crawling in our bathtub this morning. read more

Welk Resorts - Branson - Working on the lock... - Performing Arts Near Me - Branson, Missouri

This resort looks brand new on the inside, and they have a very nice pool, indoor and outdoor hot tub, and an activity center. The staff was very friendly. The double queen room was a little small. But, other than that, we had no complaints. read more

My wife and I booked here on a lark. We were there the first weekend in April, well before prime tourist season in Branson. We stayed in the Pine Building of the lodge. Our room was perfect, no issues whatsoever. We have a three year old grandson who didn't make the trip with us, but we kept thinking how much fun he'd have there with the pool, the lake, the playground, and the walking trail. I can't imagine how crowded it would be during peak season; I'm sure the peak season crowd would have detracted from our experience. It was obviously not that crowded there, despite it being a weekend. It's several miles from the main strip in Branson, and there's no shuttle to the strip, so I'd imagine that would be a main factor in choosing this location. read more

This hotel was terrible, they did not offer any breakfast at all, NOTHING, on the days we stayed but still paid full price. The water slide and pool were supposed to be heated but were cold, we had to make reservations for our time to swim and slide, but yet they let just anyone walk in and play. This part is separate from the hotel so you have to walk outside in the cold after swimming. There aren't any food or drink vending machines on the floors of the hotel, only at the front desk. They don't have maid service, had to sit trash out in hallways, which is a Germ hazard, and if you need any towels you have to go to the concierge desk downstairs and tell them and then wait until someone has time to bring them. I do not recommend this place at all. read more

I am a welks owner. And this was the last welks location of the 5 I haven't visitors and it was a great experience! Beautiful!

We had the best reunion here this week! From the facility to the staff, activities offered on site....can't say enough good things! We would go back just our family for a stay, it was so great!! Rooms were clean, facility very kid friendly! Thanks for an awesome experience! read more

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I would NOT recommend this hotel, you can find something more worth your money. When we arrived to the hotel, housekeeping wasn't finished, the hallways were FULL of trash, pizza boxes, dirty laundry, that sat for quite a few hours before being picked up. Then we noticed one of our rooms had a major ant problem (from said trash.) We got a noise complaint at 10pm, even though the commons areas were full of unsupervised kids running around and screaming until past midnight. They conveniently put us next to the four laundry rooms which run and squeak loudly, the housekeepers would slam the doors every few minutes, not to mentions the 5 gigantic laundry bins just sitting in the hallway outside our door. They did have a guest laundry if you need to do some, but it smells like something died in there so I wouldn't use it, you clothes might smell moldy after. The back area is cool (during the day, they don't have any lights outside, so you can't see anything), mini golf is small. We found the 'game' room but it's incredibly difficult to find, and honestly is just a preschool class, with dollar store diy projects (they cost money). They had a few board games, and an Xbox that didn't work. They have a room with a couple ping pong tables and a broken foosball table. The pool is cool (depending on which lady is 'supervising.') We were told we would have a $50.00 credit for breakfast because we signed up for the timeshare meeting (they ask for you credit card info.) hotel did not honor the credit and we paid $10.00 a person for a couple of cold, bland, food options and water downed juice. Also it seems as the air conditioning doesn't work in the rooms. Across the multiple rooms we had, it was 75 on arrival, and after having the air on all night, we woke up to a 77+ room (in the middle of winter) I would NOT recommended this place, as you can find something better very easily. (This was last Christmas) read more

Staff were nice. Clean rooms but just not worth the money. I could tell the building was older and they tried to renovate it. Rooms were small, wifi was HORRIBLE, and the resort isn't a "nice" resort. The all you eat breakfast buffet wasn't great. The mini golf was dirty. Just an okay place to stay. read more

Don't let the 2 stars fool you, we did enjoy our stay, but there were too many negatives that plagued this entire stay in general. The resort is very nice, very clean, and it has some very helpful and friendly folks who work there. The weekend we went was at the very start of the whole coronavirus panic, when folks were hoarding toilet paper, masks, and hand sanitizer. It must have been around spring break time, because it looked like a zoo around the resort. It was a very cold and wet weekend as well, so not a lot of outdoor things to do. We did try the pool, and the game room with our kids, but they were both over run by kids ranging from toddlers to college age kids, and their very loud, rude, and obnoxious parents. I had hoped their restaurant was an actual restaurant, but it turned out to be nothing but a buffet, which I hate buffets, but we needed to eat. The rooms are in very extreme dire need of furniture upgrades and additions. I'm sure we will return someday, just so they can have a chance to redeem themselves, after all, the place came highly recommended to us, so they must be doing something right somewhere. We'll just chalk it up to being a bad weekend to go there. read more

Very quiet and off the main drag, but still close enough that Branson attractions are within 10-15 minutes. The Splash-A-Torium was great and the staff was very helpful. Activities daily for adults and kids. Would definitely stay here again. read more

We found an alarming amount of black mold along the baseboard of our room. I went to put a bag in between the far wall and the bed, and noticed a very strong mildew odor. I then noticed the carpeted baseboard sagging around the corner of the room, and it peeled right away from the wall revealing nasty black mold. The smell was enough to make me gag (SO strong and revolting), and I find it hard to understand how any regular inspection by the hotel staff could have missed this. I really wanted to like this place because the concierge people were really nice and helpful coming in, and there are great activities for the kids. However, if there was that much mold in our room, I have to wonder how much is in the rest of the hotel--in the walls, under carpet, etc.--and if it could be toxic. We were comped for the room but no other ones were available in the resort...now we're staying in a friggin roach motel about 10 minutes away. Pretty ready for the vacay to be over now. read more

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Came here for a weekend trip with the kids, the splash-a-torium is awesome for the kids, and they love it. The hotel it self is very nice but has some areas that need maintaining and updating (light bulbs burned out, kind of a musty smell in bathroom, cracks in wall), staff is nice and friendly. Good buffet in the morning and if you prepay with the staff you get buy a adult for $8 and get a kid over 4 free. Not far from the main drag. We will come again. read more

Nice resort. Clean and well kept. In fact, I would have given it a 5 star except for the scam that is their time share program. 1st, they say it's an hour presentation. In fact it takes about 2 1/2 hours. 2nd, they promise you a 3 day trip to Vegas for taking the tour, airfare included. They have you pick 2 dates for the trip and they will both come and go with no trip. 3rd, after they don't deliver on the Vegas trip, they say you can have a free 2 nights in Branson, Sunday thru Thursday only, obviously with no airfare. Of course, whichever days you pick will not be available. 4th, They make you pay $150 up front for "taxes" for the "free trip" you will never receive. It will take you almost 6 months to get that money back, during which time I'm sure they have your money invested, making them interest. My brother went through this scam and we went through this scam. Neither of us received any free vacation. Enjoy your stay, but don't waste your time on the timeshare scam. read more

I stayed two nights at the hotel in a room with a king size bed. The room decor is nice but the room was small. The walls were very thin and I heard kids crying, people talking, kids running up and down the hallways, and could hear people in the rooms next to us. The heated hot tub was nice but there were so many people, especially kids, in them. The Splash-A Torium was nice but crowded and full of kids running around. I think that as a couple without kids, there were too many kids running around for my liking but if you have kids you may enjoy. read more

This is our second time to stay at this location. We purchased a room with double beds. When we pulled back the sheets there was hair and the floors in the room was dirty and stained. We were very disappointed. read more

Love, love, love this resort! Quiet place off of the strip and plenty to do for families! Between the splash-a-torium and the miniature golf, it's all included in your stay. Highly recommended! read more

I was at a basketball tournament with my son in Branson. We decided to stay another night and by chance I choose to book the Welk Property there. I was very impressed with the facility, the food, the room, the theatre but, most importantly the people. You have a great operation going there. read more

We recently took a nice vacation to Branson and while there stayed at Welk. The rooms were amazing and the staff was very helpful in giving directions and recommendations to food places and shows. While there we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves and I can hardly wait to return. read more

For those that follow me may remember my review of this property several years ago. Since then, it seems, the ownership has invested in this property and gave it a much needed face lift. The lobby is more modern than it was, and the rooms are not so Super 8ish as they once were. They now have a fridge, flat tv, and pretty decent wifi (when it actually worked -- more on that later). Checking in, I learned how Expedia works in regards to your reservation. I had assumed, as I'm sure most of you do, that once you place your reservation, you are in the system and good to go. Not quite. Upon making your reservation, the property gets an email with all the details as well as where you are paying (Expedia or the property itself). The front desk (or whoever else) has to input the reservation manually into the system. I speak of this because this caused the only issue of my stay. Arriving around 1, I waited in the check in line for a good 10 minutes behind a lady who seemed to have an endless line of questions that had she read the literature provided by the front desk clerk could have had 99% of them answered i'm sure, but I digress. I finally get to the check in desk and my reservation was not in the system. We spent a good 5 minutes going around and around about how I was sure I booked the correct dates, etc. I finally went back out the the car and got my reservation print out (my phone was in the car too) and got back in the check in line. 10 more minutes or so goes by and I'm finally at the desk again. This time, the clerk realizes what had happened and runs back to the back and sure enough, my reservation is still in the inbox -- someone on the overnight shift didn't input the reservations. After check in, we got to our room which was a lot better than I remembered. Like I said above, it no longer has the Super8 feel to it and more of a modern business hotel. Unlike last time, we decided to visit the splashitorium as the kids have been begging to swim for months now. So I suit up and walk over to the complex (it's across the parking lot from the lobby) and was surprised at what it was. The website and most tourist sites sell this as some water park. Yes, there is a water slide and that's about it. The pool is an indoor - outdoor setup which is pretty neat the way they have it laid out. There are two hot tubs (one in and one out) and a splash area with sprinklers and waterfalls for the super small. There are staff on site who coordinate activities and on the night we were there, they were showing a movie outside while people swam. I let the kids swim for a few hours before rounding them up for dinner. Of course, after dinner, we returned for a few more hours of water play. Finally the kids are worn out and we return to the room. The beds are comfortable enough -- not too hard, not too soft and the only issue with the room we had was the AC would not heat up. It was perpetually on 71. The next day, I took the kids out to the playground, but the path was blocked by a scale replica of the Vietnam Vet Memorial in DC, so we had to detour a bit -- no big deal. The mini golf is more like old-school putt putt than the courses you see around town, so if you are a mini golf fan, go play off-site. We skipped breakfast this time around because the last time we were here the $8 price tag for frozen and reconstituted food was a little much for the taste. Check out at the Welk is at 10 am -- pretty early, but being as the pool and everything opens at 10, it makes sense. Both of my kids like this property -- mainly because of the splashitorium -- so we will stay here again.. The rooms are ok, but while now better than a super 8, there isn't much to separate this place from the Ramada or Fairfield Inn down the road -- that is unless you like the water park feature or the on-site theater. read more

Highly recommend this hotel and the breakfast buffet was amazing. The staff is friendly and the rooms are very very clean! We did not do the splashatorium because we were mostly out at attractions but there were several people there and they all looked like they were having a great time. There is a pool in the back for those not doing the splashatorium and a mini golf course and a small park area. There is also a small fitness room with a treadmill, elliptical and bike with a tv. All in all, a very good experience. read more

Ok we have not stayed here and will NEVER stay here! We did the time share thing for $125.00. Never ever again. We were told 2 hours tops. Took 2 1/2 hours. Our salesman was nice and polite but talked all about himself. Said he would never do high pressure sales and would only take 1 1/2 hours. Ha!! When we were done and told him we could not do this he got his manager Cody. He was very high pressure. We had to tell him NO two times. He was very very pissed at the end as was our salesman. We were told we would be getting free gifts. Never got free gifts!!!!!! Do not do this not worth the time or aggrievation !!!!! read more

Great hotel for kids and families. They enjoyed the Splashatorium and the mini golf. The location was convenient to the strip, but away from much of the traffic. We did t try the restaurant. Would have liked more info on the restaurant. Every time we were near it, it was closed. Overall it was a good choice. read more

My husband was looking for a place for us to relax and let the kids swim. This is perfect!! We stayed in the 1 bedroom lodge and felt so at home. Coffee on the porch in the morning and swimming all day in the Splashatoruium. First night here we took advantage of the pool side dining. Family pizza, breadsticks, and four drinks $25 plus 20% gratuity. Wasn't surprised by this. We knew we were ultimately paying for the convince of not leaving the pool to get food. Food was good. Saved money the next day by buying groceries and eating sandwiches and chips by the pool. Lots of activities throughout the day for the kids! Can't wait to return! read more

We saw the stage show of The Price is Right in it's first show back for the 2013 season. We were fairly impressed with the authenticity of the show. If you haven't seen the traveling show before, be sure to know that there are some changes from the regular show. Their goal is to get as many people playing as possible, so the four players on contestant's row only get to bid on one item. The winner gets to play the main game; the three losers get a t-shirt. Then, they call up four new players for the next round. They also get three new players to spin the wheel and two new players for the showcase showdown (only bidding on one showcase). Prizes are cheaper than the TV show; however, the one showcase we saw did include a car and a trip, so that's good. As far as the show itself, prices were much lower than what you'd expect, so hardly anyone won anything...i.e., just about everyone overbid. After the show, you can go up on stage and spin the big wheel, which we did, and get pics with the guest host and others. For anyone who has grown up with the show, it was a neat thing to see, but it's important to go in with realistic expectations of what you're going to see. read more

We just checked into the room. Unlike the other reviewer we received a fridge in our room but only at request for medicine and baby milk. The staff was very friendly and accommodated us quickly. The room was clean and had ample space. Free wifi was nice and a flat screen tv with all needed inputs. The food was just ok. There's was no microwave in the room. read more

We came to Welk on a trade through Interval. Beware all time share owners the photos of the room on the interval site is only available if you PAY ADDITIONAL $ 40.00 per night......very deceptive ! They assume you won't bring your conformation and when you do they tell you it was a mistake by interval... When you complain the management tells you to call interval to ask to be moved to another time share. Restaurant was dead empty when we were there and the gift shop is only open when there is a show. Wanted to use spa tub but that too was closed. Front desk has no clue how to get around town. We asked about food and all the front desk could offer was pizza.... There are lots of options but they hire teenagers and they only know about teenager likes and dislikes. Welk Management is a problem......all Welk resorts. read more

The worst resort I've ever been and we payed for it and the tour was a Video and service was bad. We stayed one night in the hotel they provide us which is old and the room was smelly and noisy. I talked to their staff and they're cold. They don't care about customers and only select the customers they think have the potential to buy their vacation packages . I cannot imagine this is what they said premium resort they owned. It's not worth the money and don't trust them. read more

We had 2 suites. Not cheap but we have a big family. Rooms were nice but wrong time to stay. Tremendous construction noise. Our views were construction 100 ft from the balcony at the back and 200 feet from the front door. Would have been nice to know when we were booking the hotel. Also, they try to sell timeshares via sitting through lectures. Not what I am looking to do on my time off. Disappointed at this price point. Have stayed at Big Cedar Lodge several times and never been disappointed. Just wanted to try something else. read more

Welk Resorts - Branson - Performing Arts Near Me - Branson, Missouri

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My family and I travel to Brandon once a year and try to make sure we get a good hotel since we stay 3 to 5 nights. When booking a hotel we look for a large in door pool area that is very kid friendly. We also want to make sure we have access to the Internet and good TV service for our down time. Customer service was great and everyone we came across was very friendly and made sure we had everything we needed. Rooms are kept very clean. My family really enjoyed our stay here and would recommend this resort to anyone, especially with kids. read more

Older resort but has been remodeled. Very cozy, comfy room! Everyone was so nice, we will be back:)

After out tour with Welks in Branson I wonder why anyone would want to pay $41,000 plus $1,200 per year HOA fees??!! They pressure you and run over their tour time.. We walked out after requesting our 'free' cruise.. Oh yea they forgot to say you will pay approx. $400 in fees and taxes. We stayed in their hotel which was old, horrible bed and the electrical plugs were so loose I couldn't use them. Totally not worth it! read more

Our family of four stayed 2 nights over New Year's Eve. We stayed in a 3rd floor room with two queen beds. Pros: The staff was very friendly. The room was very CLEAN! Beds are comfy. Shower was hot with great water pressure. The Splashatorium was very nice. The kids loved the slide and water play area. It was very cold outside while we were there but nice and warm inside. Hot tub was large and hot. Nice large locker room. Fitness center was decent. You can get a full workout done there. Yummy free coffee in the lobby in the morning. Nice secluded location. Cons: I'm not sure if the beds are true queens, felt more like fulls. The rooms are small, with our 3 small carry on type suitcases there was no room to put anything except on the table and chair. Fridge was on high and never got cold. Beware, the walls are paper thin here. If you sleep light at all, stay somewhere else. We had a fan on for noise and could still hear ever conversation in the hallway, every footstep and every door open and slam shut. Since we were on the 3rd floor the noise from the people above was unbelievable. I'm sure they were just waking but you hear every single step. Some of it shook our room. Needless to say I got no sleep! The breakfast is so-so. We eat very healthy and so there were no options for us. Some pineapple and that's it. No oatmeal, yogurt, wheat bread, egg whites, skim milk, 1%, or fruit choices. Lots of white bread, bagels, bacon, biscuits, waffles, pancakes, gravy, etc. I guess that's the norm around here. So we wasted the $28 on breakfast here. Lesson learned. Although we loved the location, the pool, and the cleanliness and the excellent price of $79 a night, we won't return to this hotel due to room size and paper thin walls. read more

The hotel was OK with a nice pool area and hot tubs. The exercise room was OK however the weight equipment was cheap Hoist machines, hard to determine what weight you were using. Employees were all very friendly and helpful. We were here with our grandson for our spring break so there were very few people staying at the hotel. The "one star" rating is because of the optional timeshare presentation. We were told that we could save $120 by attending this 2 hour presentation however it was actually 4 hours while our grandson sat in the room with nothing to do. Everything started out nice however when we balked about buying things got a little crazy. The finance guy came over and told us that we were the perfect couple to purchase. Actually we don't like staying in one place for a week but enjoy doing guided tours where you see some of the major attractions of an area or country. We were given two options to purchase with the first requiring a $7000 deposit that they would put on my credit card. This would give you points every year. The second option was for points every two year for a down payment of $5000. When I looked at the paperwork the cost of the second option was $23,000 with a loan rate of 15.9%. I told them I would never pay that much interest for anything they told me I could just pay it off at anytime. At this I asked if we could kick this around a little and let them know in the morning. We were told that this was a special rate just for today and tomorrow the cost would be $40,000. This sure sounded fishy, buy it right now or the price doubles overnight. We said no and things really got interesting. We were offered airfare to Europe for 2 people and other perks to get us to sign. We again said "no way" and left after we were told we were making a "big mistake by not purchasing this timeshare". We would stay at the hotel again when we come to Bronson but will never attend another time share presentation ever. Now I understand all the adds on the radio and TV about selling your timeshare. It was not worth the $120 and free show tickets. Tickets that we actually never received. read more