Rage Cycles

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7 years ago

Super chill vibe in this bike shop. I stopped in to see if they had a tool in stock as I was in the area from Cave Creek. No luck, but this is a really sweet local bike shop. Lots of other in stock high end bikes and parts. Apparel, supplies, they pretty much had it all. The atmosphere is kinda gastro pub/ski lodge chic...nice metal signs and burnt wood motif. Someone spent some time making this right. I also was impressed with their website and events calendar. I liked hearing they have "no drop" night rides. Way to build a following. Also, I was met mid store by two four legged and furry greeters, I like that. Dog friendly is an understatement here. I will be back. read more

Rage Cycles - Nice event schedule here. - Bikes Near Me - Scottsdale, Arizona

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Kyle F.

Elite 24

18

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4 years ago

I'm not a local so I can't give five stars for repeated experiences here or the service department. The shop was decent sized with a good selection of gear and apparel. The shop dog was fantastic. I got some apparel as a birthday gift that didn't fit. I brought it by the shop and explained the situation and they allowed me to exchange the items and gave me no issues about it. If I was local I'd definitely give their service department a try. read more

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Julia G.

Elite 25

96

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5 years ago

I have been a Rage customer since 1995 when I first moved to Scottsdale. I like it that this store caters to serious mtn bikers, who want high end parts, not the "family bike stuff". When I get my mtn bike repaired, or new parts installed, the price is quite reasonable and their store is close to where I live, both old location on Scottsdale Rd and new location on Thomas by the canal. I just turned age 70, so I don't mtn bike so much anymore. I also don't like getting up to ride cos of the heat. I just ride in the forest when I go camping in the summer on the Rim. read more

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Steve C.

3

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9 years ago

I've been a loyal Rage Cycles customer for more than 15 years. There is no better team in the entire area. Peter and his crew always take the time to get me back onto the trails while also assuring I get the best value. Best value: the entire Rage....'er- range from a new tire to a new mountain bike and everything in between! Rage's wrenches are the only ones who ever maintain or repair my bike! I would not even consider purchasing a bike from anywhere else (I ride a Pivot 429 Trail these days.) read more

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Paula M.

59

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8 years ago

Yay it's finally bike weather and of course my first spin on the bike and I get a flat tire. I am fairly new to the Arcadia area but had heard good things about Rage Cycles so without hesitation I decided to give it a try. First off I was greeted by the cutest four legged staff members that were in the heels of a very nice gentleman named Nate. Nate happily gave me a quick education in tires and tubes and gave me all my options as he fixed my flat. Thanks Nate for being so kind and taking care of my flat so quickly. In case you couldn't tell I highly recommend this place! read more

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Donna B.

122

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14 years ago

On a recommendation by Ian B., I recently stopped by Rage Cycles to see if they had any women's padded shorts...they didn't in my size but the guy was very helpful in pointing me to another place that might. I was impressed with that level of trying to help me out. I went to Papago for a ride the next day, and afterwards I dropped off my bike at their shop for a nice tune up. They are really nice! They don't seem to mind that I'm just starting out. One of the guys came out to take the bike off my car rack, and answered a couple of "newbie" questions for me ("is this helmet okay?" "is the bike on the rack correctly?"). What a relief -- no snooty attitudes! Other bike shops don't seem to get that everyone -- no matter how good they may be on a bike now -- had to start somewhere. I really like this place -- Rage Cycles is now my bike shop!! read more

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Pat M.

94

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4 years ago

Pains me to do this but I came in THREE weeks ago to talk through a build for a frame I had already procured and the service was great, we talked through build options and potential slow-downs due to the ongoing pandemic and supply chain issues. I left feeling confident that I had chosen the right shop and that they would keep me posted as they worked to procure components and ultimately start the build. The expectation that was set by the shop was to get back to me within 2-3 days - I came back a week later and was told that they were working on it and would be in touch. I write this now three weeks later after never receiving a single follow up call even after I came into the shop in person and kindly asked for an update. I grew up working in a bike shop and have worked for the largest bike parts distribution company in the USA - I know how bike shops work. This isn't it. Sorry to do this guys but your customer communication is abysmal. Landis built my bike within a week. I would have waited longer and gladly paid your shop but... ya never even called me back. Tough look. read more

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Tyler P.

3

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6 years ago

I called to see if they could fix my Haro mountain bike and they said "sure, bring it in". I came in the next day and the lady standing outside at the table said "they're not taking in bikes for repairs right now". However, people were coming in and out of there bringing in their bikes!?!? WTF!!! Why didn't he tell me on the phone that they're booked??? Thanks for wasting my time!!! read more

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Julie B.

95

13

2

5 years ago

Nate was just so helpful and professional! I was so thrilled to get my new cruiser! I will be sending everyone I know there. Very knowledgeable. read more

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KenandBobbi B.

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2

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5 years ago

I've been a customer of Peter's since...2000? Back when he was still ad Adventure, then when he moved to the old Scottsdale location and now to the location on Thomas. He's helped me with my mountain bike, restored my BMX bike, got my wife her mountain bike...we still have them all. We only buy our bikes from Rage. We moved out of Arizona a few years ago and for Christmas this year, we are asking Peter to get us bikes for the kids and ship it to our Seattle address. They have treated us so well over the years, they have more than earned our lifetime loyalty. read more

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Nate S.

208

407

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7 years ago

Service review - my beach cruiser had been having issues so I took it down to Rage to see if they could fix what I couldn't. They addressed it without making me wait and the whole fix took only about 15 minutes. They seem very knowledgeable and helpful and I won't hesitate to go back again for any other bike issues that arise. read more

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Kacy L.

Elite 21

466

75

248

7 years ago

Right when I walked in the guys had said hello. They were all very friendly and answered all my questions thoroughly. Went in for a re-tape of my handlebars. Also got my handlebars adjusted. Quick and quality service. The store has a good selection of products to choose from. For the tape they had colors like red, blue, black, brown, green and white with different textures. I definitely would recommend. Based on my experience here today everything was awesome. The guy who help me helped take my bike out of my trunk and put it back in. Store had a variety of bikes so it seems like the guys know about a lot of different bikes! read more

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Keith G.

20

1

2

6 years ago

I was quickly passing through town on a road trip across the country with my dog & ran into a serious issue with my mountain bike shifters not shifting. I called at least 5 different bike shops for help & they all told me they were 2 weeks out min for repairs. The problem was that I was heading to Joshua Tree in a couple days. I just happened to be close to Rage Cycle so I stopped in & explained my situation. At first I was told they were too busy to help, but then the clerk I talked to told the head guy Nate my situation & he decided to take a look. OMG in less than 10min my bike was shifting better than when I originally bought it! Nate really saved my ass & got my bike back to perfect operating condition in minutes. Thx to Nate & Rage Cycle, I'll be able to shred the trails on the rest of my road trip! Much appreciation & gratitude Nate & Rage Cycle!! read more

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Sharon G.

10

7

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5 years ago

Honestly I just really enjoy the message from the owner above and they will have my business because of it.

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Ryan W.

0

11

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3 years ago

Great bike shop always have what I need to keep rolling and the ability to fix what I can't do myself

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Tanya C.

1

20

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5 years ago

Peter and Nate and really all of the people at Rage are top notch. I can't say enough good things about the way they've treated me and my family over the years. I can't wait until they start doing monthly group rides again, the coolest people always show up and I always have a great time. read more

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Jason B.

46

1

0

6 years ago

Went in yesterday to drop a couple bikes, one for a service, and one for wheels, and drivetrain replacement. Everyone had masks on, and were very welcoming. I know there is a Pandemic going on, and supply chains are a wreck, they were very forthcoming to let me know parts may be hard to get. I was surprised to get a call that day, and today from Peter to go through a few specifics on what I was wanting. Awesome to deal with such a knowledgeable shop with great customer care. Looking forward to seeing me bike when it is done. Thank you Rage Cycles. read more

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Pedro C.

0

3

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4 years ago

The staff is wonderful. They go out of their way to help you. They try to find the best and most economical solution. Very competent service. They're very friendly. read more

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Armando O.

Elite 23

546

279

1468

7 years ago

Everyone in this place is awesome and professional. Had a tuneup and a front brake replaced for a super reasonable price. They didn't try to sell me anything I didn't need or want just great service. read more

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Daniel F.

0

21

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6 years ago

Before store opened, wanted to leave the bike to fix a flat. Would have nothing to do with me. Said pretend I am not here. I had to walk the bike home because of this. I would not do business with an attitude like this. read more

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Garritt G.

0

1

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3 years ago

Customer service was impeccable! While in the process of refurbishing two older bikes that I came about, I brought them in to Rage to add some finishing touches. By no means were these rides a couple of show ponies. However, the staff treated them as if they were their own, just the same. They were great about helping me make informed decisions based on quality, price point, and overall look. In less than an hour, we were on our way out of the door with new tires, tubes, seats, and grips. I will be coming back in the future, and would recommend anyone else to do the same! read more

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Chris B.

0

11

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4 years ago

Great shop. One of two shops that allowed me to test ride a bike and gave great insight and comments to help guide me through my search. Will definitely be back. read more

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Jay S.

0

12

5

5 years ago

I have been going to Rage since 1997 and they are just as cutting edge today as they were back when I first met them in Tempe. Jason S. the mechanic was able to work on my Pinion gears with the Cinq shifters and dialed them in perfectly. Thanks for the great service! read more

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Mike L.

0

77

0

4 years ago

What a let down! Took my Twins into this shop to pick out bikes for their 12th birthday. Walked in, said hello to the guy behind the desk. He ignored me. Figured maybe he didn't hear me. My daughter picked out a bike, and as my son was picking out a bike I said hello again. This time he looked up angrily, shoved a mask in my face and told me to put it on! We left, and they lost the sale... The sad part is that they probably think we are anti-mask. We are not. We are anti-rude people! Won't be back to this shop. It doesn't cost a penny to be nice! Management ought to teach that. read more

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Dave R.

0

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8 years ago

I've been going here over a decade. I honestly never stop to think about just how much money I have spent at this shop. I've bought several bikes and lots of repairs. I like bikes and break them often. It's been a lot of money, but I can't think of a better bike shop to spend it at. If you get a chance, stop by on a Friday evening for a beer and unique experience. read more

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Courtney O.

161

34

5

9 years ago

Have gone here a few times to get repairs for my bike. They are always super helpful, honest and friendly. Best part is they allow you to bring in your dog.!! Lol read more

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Laurel D.

465

21

31

8 years ago

This is the second time I have had a last minute issue with my bike. Calling ahead and asking if okay to bring they have welcomed me with open arms and taken care of my bike. I really appreciate their honesty and work on my single speed last minute. read more

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Heather S.

5

13

1

6 years ago

We came in here and we wanted to buy a bike, but they never even came to speak to us. I understand you can be busy at times but no one even said hello when we walked in or greeted us. Nice store, they just lost business because they never even helped us so we left. read more

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Jeff K.

0

14

5

4 years ago

I don't know what is going on at Rage. The last couple of repair visits were sub-par. Maybe it's because my bike cost less than $1000 and it doesn't deserve top-notch service. I did buy the bike at Rage, so I don't get it. It's sad to see. I've been going to these guys for 12 years or so. read more

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Eric R.

59

63

21

6 years ago

I've taken two Trek bikes here over the past decade and I've always been impressed with their friendliness, helpfulness and honesty. If they don't have something specific you need in stock they will special order it for you. As a matter of fact they were late on making repairs on my bike and without question gave me a discount. Even tho they aren't close to home I'll keep brining my bikes back. read more

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More info about Rage Cycles

6411 E Thomas Rd
Scottsdale, AZ 85251
Directions
(480) 968-8116
Call Now
Visit Website
http://www.ragecycles.com

Hours

What time does Rage Cycles open?

Rage Cycles opens at 10:00 AM on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

What time does Rage Cycles close?

Rage Cycles closes at 6:00 PM on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.Rage Cycles closes at 5:00 PM on Saturday.Rage Cycles is closed on Sunday.

Mon-Fri 10:00 AM - 6:00 PMSat 10:00 AM - 5:00 PMSun Closed

Payment methods

Does Rage Cycles take credit cards?

Yes, Rage Cycles takes credit cards.

Indoor Amenities

Does Rage Cycles allow dogs?

Yes, Rage Cycles allows dogs.

Outdoor Amenities

Does Rage Cycles have bike parking?

Yes, Rage Cycles has bike parking.

Does Rage Cycles have parking?

Yes, Rage Cycles has parking options. Private Lot Parking

Other Amenities

Is Rage Cycles wheelchair accessible?

Yes, Rage Cycles is wheelchair accessible.

From the Business

Specialties

The term "Exceptional customer service" gets tossed around a lot these days. But isn't that something we should expect ? We work hard ( and relax just as hard ! ) to give you a welcoming, warm and fun environment that maybe is not found everywhere. And sure, we have great customer service as well ! Thanks for stopping by, Peter

History

Established in 1991.

Rage Cycles began life as Phoenix's first boutique, high end mountain bike shop. Located at 48th street and Baseline, the trails at South Mountain were the backdrop and proving ground for our customers. Rage carried all the newest parts, frames and bikes. Our reputation for building the best bikes began at this original location. Today, Rage Cycles is located in South Scottsdale right by the canal on the southeast corner of 64th St. and Thomas Rd. Not only have we maintained our reputation as the premier custom mountain bike and wheel builders, we've expanded our offerings to include cruisers, BMX, town, gravel , fat bikes and more. We still strive to maintain the high level of service that started with our original shop.

Meet the Business Owner: Peter P.

I've been involved in cycling for over 35 years. I've been blessed to ride and race with some of the most incredible people. My business is based on the lessons I've learned over the years. The core values of Rage Cycles reflect the common ideals we all seem to share...treat and respect people the way you want to be treated, leave our environment in better condition and pass on the best parts of a cycling life.

Review Highlights - Rage Cycles

“Peter and his crew always take the time to get me back onto the trails while also assuring I get the best value.”

Mentioned in 16 reviews

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People searched for Bikes 3,065 times last month within 15 miles of this business.

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Explore benefits

Scottsdale Bike Company

4.8(106 reviews)

0.4 mi

It's getting hard to find a bike shop in Scottsdale, AZ that will not gouge you on the cost of…read morelabor. Scottsdale Bike Co. is one of the last reputable shops standing in my beloved Town of 53 years. At other shops in Old Town, I feel the money getting sucked out of my pockets just walking in the door. Some of the smaller shops even think it's acceptable to talk down to me when I am asking about service. The Team at Scottsdale Bike Co. are my kind of people. They'll openly chat about what I can fix on my own and what I need them to handle for me. Their labor costs are the lowest I have found in Scottsdale, and I genuinely enjoy chatting for a few minutes with the service team when I have a chance to pop in to get some work done or see if they can find a part for me. If you're not getting your service and repairs done at Scottsdale Bike Co. you're throwing money away, and I can give you my Zelle if you want to throw your money away in my direction. Thank You Scottsdale Bike Co. for helping me keep my costs down as low as possible while I enjoy the thrill of the ride with my friends and family.

Above and beyond shop and people, that just care. I wouldn't be able to say enough about…read morethe guys at SBC... gentleman, knowledgeable, friendly, incredibly helpful. What started out as a Google search to rent a quality and fun mountain bike, at an affordable /fair price, lead us to Scottsdale Bike Company. Quick call on the drive from California confirmed they had what we needed. Upon arrival they noted we were stacking the bikes in the back of our suv, and one of the guys offered his personal hitch rack to ease our load and set it up for us. After a fun hour at the Mesa bike park, we had my gfs son's personal bike break. After fiddling and realizing the severity we quickly ran back to SBC just before closing. The guys got right to work without much more than a question to see if they could get us back on the road before we left the shop. I rented a Large MTB and they offered to swap us out for a bike more fitting for the 12 year old. I said thanks, we'll take it. They then insisted I didn't miss out and sent us on our way with another bike rental. A beautiful amazing and quality full suspension MTB. They inspected each unit thoroughly. Noting one had some damage, and despite them being able to send us with it, they did not. They ensured they sent us on the trails with a solid well looked after unit. As we came back to return the next day, and pick up the bike. They did everything they could to get us running, but it being a 10 year old model (They didn't have parts on hand) they offered to help but would take time to get parts, we're just in town for a short while. When I asked what we owed them for inspecting and trying to fix it, they declined our payment outside of the rentals. True gentleman, incredibly kind, generous with their time and resources. I'd pay every penny to them for parts, service, even a purchase. Whether visiting, or a local, take a minute to give them a chance to have your business! You won't regret it. As honest as they come.

CST Tires from Scottsdale Bike

Shop front photo of Scottsdale Bike Co

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Bicycle Haus

3.9(60 reviews)

1.3 mi

Excellent experience buying my new 2026 Specialized Crux Expert (AKA the 'Ozempic' of gravel bikes)…read morefrom Steve and Cale! Top-notch customer service and communication made the purchase a breeze and got me out riding as quickly as possible.

Can't thank these guys enough. From the start; ordering my new specialized mtb with Jake, to…read moreworking with Chad & Craig to fix a couple hiccups with the bike during my first ride. You can tell this crew cares for their customers and really makes it a point to get you back on the road/trails in a timely manner. Would recommend to others and looking forward to the continued support from the shop!

When you feel the need for speed..

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Landis Cyclery

4.3(118 reviews)

7.1 mi

Looking for a hybrid commuter. Great selection of all ranges of bikes, parts and friendly service…read more I've been to a lot of bike shops and Landis is doing it right. Nice job Landis and with Parker on board you can't go wrong. Best mechanic I've ever had! And, super friendly guy! Thanks again for the chill vibe!

The service at this location was excellent. Any and all questions I had regarding trail bikes were…read moreanswered with a seemingly unbiased opinion and backed by information in regard to full suspension or hard tail bikes.

Trek Verve 2 & 3

Specialized Bicycles, North Tempe & Scottsdale Location!

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Bike Emporium

4.2(85 reviews)

3.9 mi

•$$$

I've brought my bike here before and had great service but leaving a review after my most recent…read moreservice. Got a flat and brought my bike in mid-afternoon on Veteran's Day. Got a text the next day letting me know it was ready and the price would be a bit different than originally quoted due to the rear wheel being on hub drive (not originally noted upon drop off). I appreciated the heads up and understood the difference in pricing. I just think these folks are super nice and were very quick with their service-you should "wheelie" give them a try!

Tom and Evan were wonderful to work with. They have a great service department and really nice…read moreinventory.

This is a bike that can be used for biking and other activities like biking.

Evan in service!

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This is the inside of Bike Emporium.

Rogue Electric Cyclery

4.8(25 reviews)

13.6 mi

Certified professionals

Workmanship commitment

I was looking to take my girlfriend on a bike ride date. I came across rogue electric Cyclery on…read moreyelp. They were just five minutes away from me. I came in and Alex was able to hook me up with two bikes to rent at an amazing price. his bikes are so much fun to ride. Thank you so much Alex.

BUYER BEWARE!! DO NOT PURCHASE A VELOTRIC BIKE!! DO NOT PURCHASE FROM ROGUE ELECTRIC CYCLERY IN…read morePHOENIX!! Battery is terrible. Warranty with Velotric is worthless. Rogue sells you a high-priced bike, pockets your money, and takes no responsibility when things go bad. I paid $1,500 for a new Velotric Fold1 in late 2025. By Spring 2026, the battery (with a full charge) would go only 2 to 3 miles, then completely die. After cooperating with Velotric's warranty department to troubleshoot, they concluded what was obvious: it needs a new battery. Only after several weeks of back and forth troubleshooting did they inform me they have no batteries in stock and it would be another 2 months until they had any. They provided no compensation of any kind for the major disruption, nor did Rogue Electric Cyclery. Both Velotric and Rogue Electric Cyclery continue to sell new very expensive Fold 1 bikes that come with new batteries. However, neither Velotric nor Rogue is willing to provide one of those batteries to cover a customer's legitimate warranty issue. I am still waiting for a new battery covered under warranty.

New Super73 R-Adventure Series build, with all the cool accessories from Super73!

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Bicycle and electric bicycle parts and accessories. Tannus Armour, flat tire prevention.

Bicycle Ranch

3.8(158 reviews)

10.8 mi

I want to start by saying that I don't often take the time to give reviews but for this business I…read morehad to make the time. I ordered a Kuat Pivot Pro x bike rack from the bicycle ranch online. I record an email from them stating my rack would be delivered in a couple days. The next day I got a call from the store asking if I wanted the rack assembled by the shop and delivered at no extra cost. I was like heck ya. The rack was delivered by "Paul" who explained the rack function with my wife and dropped off some extra swag. I couldn't believe it. This type of service you just don't see anymore. I will definitely be doing business with this shop in the future as i am an avid mountain biker with the scars to prove it. Thanks bicycle ranch for such a great experience!

Great and reliable service!! Amazing knowledgeable staff. Great location, bike selection and…read moremerchandise too

Kuat piston pro x

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Desert Raider 2, a mix of art, and brutality, thanks to the Bicycle Ranch in Scottsdale!

Rides N Motion

4.6(85 reviews)

5.9 mi

We had and always have a great experience with Rides N Motion at McCormick Ranch! The staff is…read morealways kind and eager to get us going on the bikes as fast as possible. They are also great at explaining how everything works. The selection of E-bikes was perfect for our group of 6. It's great to able to choose if you want to pedal a little or a lot! Never had any issues with the bikes which made our day fun. They are located right off the bike path which makes it so easy to take off and enjoy immediately! Highly recommend Rides N Motion to everyone.

We did a 3 hour e-bike rental, which in my opinion is the best amount of time to enjoy the area and…read morestop a few times along the way. They provided helmets and bike locks. The staff was friendly and helpful. The bikes were in great condition, fully charged, and very comfortable to ride around. The location is ideal as it is steps from the green belt which is a beautiful and easy ride. We stopped by old town for some coffee before making our ride back to the shop. The price for a 3 hour rental was very reasonable, especially for the quality of bikes we were given. I would highly recommend making an afternoon out of this!

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Passenger princess with four paws

Bikes Of Scottsdale

3.8(76 reviews)

7.1 mi

Unethical owner! I was quoted a price with a written job ticket prior to service to insert two new…read moretire tubes into my wife's ebike (labor only). When I went to pick up the bike the owner, Scott, told me that the price quoted was made by a new employee, Chris, and wrong. Scott quickly threw the written price quote into the garbage which I retrieved. The owner was smug when I told him that I personally would have stuck to the quoted price. Unbelievable conduct but true. I will never go back to his store.

Unfortunately, I'll have to find a new shop to take my bike. I took my 2023 Scott Spark 960 to this…read moreshop just before Christmas. Although I didn't purchase the bike here, they do stock and sell these models, so I thought it wouldn't be a problem to bring it in for service. I dropped off my bike for a broken spoke and general spoke adjustment, two new tires, and a dropper seat adjustment. Specifically, the Allen set screw that goes into the adjustment cable head was rounded out and needed replacement. Initially, they called to say they needed to install a new cable, claiming it was proprietary to Scott and had to be ordered. I agreed, but when I called back at the end of the week, they informed me that Scott provided a workaround, allowing them to use a regular cable. However, they also told me that the threads had stripped while trying to install a new set screw, and a new Tri-Lock dropout lever would cost $120. I was upset, knowing the threads were fine when I dropped off the bike. I didn't make a big deal about it, opting instead to pick up the bike and address the issue myself, as long as the other work was done. When I picked up the bike, I didn't inspect the wheels, likely because I was focused on the dropper lever. However, upon taking the bike out on the trail, I discovered that the shop had installed the front tire backwards. The tire has an indicator showing the correct rotation direction, which made me even more frustrated. Upon returning home, I flipped the tire around and noticed that the front thru-axle had no grease on it, as if it had been wiped clean. As an automotive technician, I didn't want to spend my free time working on my bike, which is why I took it to the shop in the first place. Ultimately, I wasted time, money, and patience. Sucks, because these guys are nice, fairly priced and thought it was a good alternative to landis. Unfortunately I won't be going back.

Bike is upside down with backwards tire

Clear indicator on tire for proper installation

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Dry thru front axel

Average Joes Bike Shop

4.2(30 reviews)

1.8 mi

Miles was very knowledgeable and doesn't intimidate when you ask questions. A simple adjustment to…read moremy Rockhopper left it feeling new. I'll definitely return and support this "feel good walking in the door"bike shop.

Great customer service. Fast and friendly…read more Visited about fifteen minutes till closing? did not feel rushed whatsoever. Reasonable prices.

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Spinners On the Green

4.8(80 reviews)

1.8 mi

Definitely the best Disc Golf store in Arizona! The selections are overwhelming. All name brands,…read morecolors, and different weights available, and so much more. Disc's, carts, baskets, hats, shirts it's absolutely amazing. Super friendly and helpful staff.

The staff is very polite and VERY excited about disc golf. They were knowledge about the sport and…read morethe discs and how they will fly and even talked to me about technique. They did everything but actually take me through a round. I would recommend this store, and will go back if I find myself in Scottsdale again.