NOTE: This review is based on a walkthrough, not an actual wedding. We stumbled upon this venue after doing a few other walkthroughs in the area. This venue is well equipped for a rustic/barn style wedding at an extremely reasonable price in comparison to some of the other venues. This venue is a DIY venue, so you will have to supply our own vendors if you choose this one, but that just makes it more memorable, right? They've got several places where you can choose your ceremony and or reception at, tons of photo-ops, a bride and groom suite to get ready (the bridal suite is pretty big I might add), and some tables for you if you choose to use theirs. This place is strictly a no-smoking facility, so if that's a dealbreaker for you, look elsewhere. But nevertheless, we really thought this place was cute for anyone with a smaller budget! read more

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This venue was beautiful! From the minute we arrived on the wedding day until the time we left they made sure my daughters wedding day was perfect! The wedding coordinator was organized and had very good attention to detail, helpful in all areas from planning the wedding 6months ago to the day of! Her recommendation on vendors did not disappoint and everything was perfect. I would recommend this venue and wedding coordinator to everyone. Flowers, DJ and Taco Guy were also amazing! @whisperingoaksterraceweddings @direvenue @tacosalbor @brandinicolefloraldesigner @loveandlacebridalsalon Love letters - @snap_that_photo_booth @sweetmaplebakery #weddingcoordinator #riversidewedding #ieweddings #sandiegowedding #coordinator #dayofweddingcoordinator#diyvenue read more

This venue is an absolute dream! My husband and I immediately fell in love! The venue is gorgeous, requires little decoration, reasonably priced and accommodating. Once we booked the venue, we were so excited to find out the additional offerings. They have a wedding coordinator who is amazing and that they require day of (trust me... it's beyond helpful and missy is amazing), they hold a few vendor fairs that allows you to meet trusted vendors, caterers, etc that know the venue and owners and make everything smoother on the day of. I am so thankful to Dawn, Nate and Missy for making our day so beautiful and seamless! read more

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I am thankful my husband stumbled upon Whispering Oaks Terrace. We had looked at so many venues but kept being met with the overwhelming disappointment of being priced out. I knew we wanted a whimsical, romantic, and timeless night under the stars. I was beginning to think I'd have to change my dream wedding. When my husband showed me this venue online I found myself holding my breath. It was perfect. Obviously we couldn't afford it... It was everything I'd wanted. After seeing the pricing I collected my jaw off the ground and we ran to see it the next morning. Nathan, the owner gave us a tour and told us the charming story of the venue he hand built. Needless to say this was a easy YES. Dawn, the owner, was responsive and kind. She was always patient with my questions and helped us have a successful wedding day. They also require you to hire Melissa Ellis as a day of wedding coordinator. Missy is a beautiful human who is incredibly responsive, direct, and VERY HELPFUL. So helpful we hired her as our wedding planner or the day wouldn't have gone as smoothly without her. Whispering Oaks Terrace is a dream, so many hidden gems and places to take pinterest worthy photos. We had a little over 130 guest. Everyone keeps telling us how much fun they had at our wedding. Thank you Dawn, Nathan, and Missy for helping facilitate our dream wedding. Love, The Smiths read more

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Had my wedding here this last October and it was amazing! The venue is so beautiful so I needed minimal decor which was a plus. The owners were amazing the day of the wedding and very helpful. It ended up being a very cold day but they had space heaters that we could use (they did cost $50 per heater which is kinda high in my opinion). I only gave 3 stars instead of 5 because on the morning of my wedding they gave a tour of the venue and came into the bridal sweet while me and my girls were in there. They knocked but didn't wait for an answer. Luckily we were all dress but it felt like an invasion of privacy and we weren't ready so we weren't looking too good and no one wants to be seen by strangers like that. read more

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While the rustic/ranch vibe of this place isn't really my style, I did have the pleasure of being a groomsman in a friend's wedding here about a year ago. At the time they were going through a few upgrades so there was a lot of clutter and tools randomly laying around, however, the place was nearly immaculate on wedding day. The biggest issue at this place is that it's SO easy to miss the entrance... and if you do, good luck trying to u-turn right away. It's a bitch... so let your guests know or have some signage on the road to have them prepare to turn. Once inside, parking isn't too bad unless you just had your car washed. The venue itself has a lot of different areas that are great for photo ops or just for people to hang out, and bathrooms are easily accessible in the middle. The wedding coordinator and her husband, who was also the bartender, were pretty helpful throughout most of the night... although it was a little strange when they disappeared about an hour before the end of the night for a lady who was in her pajamas cleaning up after the guests?? Overall, the wedding party had a good time and it was a beautiful wedding without any major issues. I would recommend if you're looking for a rustic/ranch/barn setting. read more

Its taken me and my wife 2 years to finally give this place their review. And as were still not over what should have been an amazing day for us and our families. Only reason why we gave them any stars was because of the actual venue layout. Very beautiful and affordable. As for the owners they seemed nice at first but once they have your money that goes out the window. All of a sudden rules and regulations were brought up on our actual wedding day that were not a part of the contract that was signed. Even when we showed them a copy of the contract they dismissed it and said they told us verbally. Their bartender that we agreed to contract through them was late and didn't even know how to tap the kegs. The owners took it upon themselves to bring out their space heaters which was to be taken out of our deposit without consulting me ,my wife or her maid of honor. Mind you it was around 75 degrees, and had bought wood logs for their fireplace if needed but The owner stated one of our guest stated it was getting cold. That was i believe 200 dollars taken from our deposit The dj who we contracted aside from the venue was told by the owners to cut the music off at 830pm, when the dj was asked why he was cutting music off earlier than expected, he stated he has played the venue multiple times and didn't want bad blood between them so he complied. He said he could keep playing but up to the owner. Owner stated there was a sound ordinance for the city and music was not to be played loudly for more than 5 hrs.(was never told to us) Mind you our wedding started at 330 and soft music was played during ceremony and food service. By this time we were more focus on figuring out what was going on when we should have been enjoying it as we had the venue til 1030pm. Even If this is the only venue that meets your budget needs please beware. Even having the written contract didn't help our case as they shrugged it off and for fear of not getting our deposit back we just took it all in and bit our tongues. We were initially going to take the owners to small claims court but decided it would not be worth our time. Reliving this day to write this review was hard but we decided to do it anyways to let people know so they can be more aware of this place and its owners, As no one should be treated the way we were on our wedding day. read more

This is a gorgeous venue for rustic weddings! It's in the middle of the Pala-Temecula area and driving to this place can give you a little motion sickness because the roads twist and turn but it's such a beautiful space that it is totally worth it! I attended a wedding tonight here and was very surprised by how beautiful this location is! It is rustic and if you are on a budget, you definitely should check this place out! It got super cold and windy so make sure you bring a jacket and dress warmly on a cool day! Parking can be tight if you have several guests but they had people usher cars in. As a guest, I loved it and l know that my friend loved this venue as well! read more

Not enough good things to say about this venue! Beverly and her son Nathan really have a special place on their hands. The ambiance, venue and everything is just perfect for those wanting to go for that rustic chic wedding? It's very DIY type of place, we were allowed to bring in our outside venues and kept the entire wedding under 12K (BOOZE INCLUDED), We were GOB - Grooms on a budget. They were SUPER friendly to my (now) husband and I which was important to us. We wanted a venue that was going to be accepting of a gay wedding and to them it was like nothing. They treated us with respect and gave us the time of day that they would anyone else. Cleanup was a breeze because the venue handled it! We just showed up the next day to pick up our stuff...some stuff we couldn't cram into our car so we just donated it to the venue (thus adding to the rustic charm this place has). The wedding coordinator that comes with the venue (Missy) is nothing short if FABULOUS! She was SUPER attentive to us, always kept an open line of communication. She has done a ton of weddings at the venue (even got married there herself) and she knows the place inside and out. She really helped make our dream wedding come true. Our big goal was not to have a pretentious wedding which foo-foo, boojie stuff...that's not our style. We wanted a taco man to come in and make us tacos, and it was great! Everyone loved the food. If you want to check out some of our pictures to which there are a ton of the venue on, check out our Instagram hashtag #jdgwedding61116 THANK YOU WHISPERING OAKS TERRACE, BEVERLY, NATHAN, AND MISSY. I will ABSOLUTELY recommend this place for anyone wanting that rustic charm in their wedding at a fraction of the price of one the local wineries. read more

We had my grandsons wedding here in December of this year. I worked with Dawn, Nathan and Missy. All of them were responsive when I needed information. It is a lovely rustic setting. The majority of the wedding is outside and therefore in December was cold. I was informed about all of the regulations ahead of time so there were no surprises for our event. All of the upcharges were explained to us ahead of time (heaters, removal of umbrellas) so there were no surprises. A friend of mine described the wedding as magical. We did a lot of our own decorations but we're allowed to come to the venue at 9 am so we had plenty of time to do it. Nathan was on site for the wedding and was very helpful when we needed things to be done. It is a very affordable venue for an outdoor wedding. read more

Love, love, loved this facility! Beautiful grounds! Love the lighted path down the drive! The barn was quaint! You really have a gold mine! Great job to the staff & vendors! read more

We had our wedding here mid June of this year. It was wonderful! We were able to personalize so much and cater things to fit our budget. The owners were always quick to answer our questions and we used many of their suggested vendors. One thing to be aware of is that it can get very windy at this venue in the evening--great for pictures but just make sure your guests dress accordingly and maybe plan on using a few heaters regardless of how beautiful it is earlier in the day. read more

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We had my son's wedding there, my issue was the handicap parking. Friday night rehearsal the owner allowed the taco truck to take both handicap parkings. I had to park up the rocky dirt hill and walk down with my cane hoping i didn't fall. Comes Saturday day of wedding i get there really early and again the owner has blatant disregard for handicap parking. Instead, He let one of his lazy employee take one because it was in the shade. Here's the kicker, he parks his big white truck in the other one so he can do chores. The owner of Whispering Oaks Terrance has no respect for people who need handicap parking. Instead he allows people with different excuses to take them, NO PLACARDS. ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING. read more

This venue is the best! We got so many compliments on our choice of venue for our July wedding. There is so much to like about this quaint and rustic slice of the Pala hills. We loved the barn and reception area. The brides room was perfect for our five girl bridal party. The bar and swing area is a nice little country hideaway from the busy ceremony and reception area. The owners were always the nicest people to deal with and always answered even the smallest and silliest questions. The recommended vendor list they provide was also a life saver and we used mostly vendors recommended by them. read more

I'd give them a zero stars if I could. Terrible experience. 1) we were told by Nathan that the bride and groom were allowed to have liquor in their suites. Day of the reception, Dawn refused to allow them the have a toast in private, in the rooms where they got ready. 2) Michelle was terrible at communicating and we only heard from her a few days before the reception. Nice enough person but a little "rough around the edges". I was thankful for her sewing kit though when the groom's seam unraveled. 3) Michelle SAID she would hire four high school students - 2 as lot attendants and 2 as servers. I thought great! I'm all for giving kids a chance to earn a few dollars, and paid $500 ($125 each). We did see 2 young men, who did a very nice job serving food and bussing tables after. But we never saw any lot attendants at all. They were supposed to patrol the parking lot, making sure no one was sneaking alcohol. Because the venue sits off a twisty county road, I was fine with that, but no family member or guest I asked ever saw a single lot attendant. 4) There were umbrellas located at each table, although there was no rain forecasted and I specifically told them I did not want umbrellas (because they cost extra and I felt they blocked the view of the area and party). I was charged $350 to remove the umbrellas I said I did not want in the first place! When I asked Dawn, she did not respond. She also took more than 3 weeks to return (almost none of) my deposit and only did that when I left her a voicemail. 5) When we wanted to let the children use play doh and when someone shot off a confetti cannon, we were scolded for using " banned substances" even though I never saw anything telling me we couldn't use certain items. Two bridesmaids in their expensive dresses, cleaned up as best they could but I was still charged $100 for confetti. Thanks for reading this far! Biggest problem of the night? 6) Creepy Nathan stood for several hours, leaning over a table with his elbows on the table, watching the guests. I know he's an owner, but he violated the right to privacy we had after paying to rent the venue. Several guests as well as the groom's family members felt his actions were racist since many guests an attendance were Latino/Latina and spoke Spanish. Hard to party when you're being stared at in an unfriendly manner. Best part of the night (besides leaving)? The bartender was awesome- when the bar ran out of the bride's adult beverage of choice, the bartender revealed he had set three aside, just for her! I was impressed! Moral of the story? Choose a different venue. You'll be glad you did. read more

Attended a wedding here. So pretty and rustic. Easy to get to and the flow was great. The owner was on the property walking around and making sure everyone was going smoothly. Great place to ha e a wedding. read more

This was the most magical place to have a wedding outside. The trees and lights were so pretty and really set a romantic mood! The staff was great and friendly and were so accommodating to any last minute changes. I definitely recommend getting married here! Great places for pictures too! read more

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Our Daughter had her wedding here and everything was so Beautiful I showed my Sister the website and she liked so much she's having her reception here read more

Never pay 100% up front! http://apracticalwedding.com/2014/07/wedding-contracts/ Be very careful of the contract, read it in full. This venue seems to expect payment in full 90 days in advance, no refund after 85 before wedding. No recourse if something God forbid happens to make the wedding not happen, for example accident, earthquake, fire, amongst a few. They keep your money no matter what. They only provide the venue nothing else. That's pretty important cover yourself, make sure in the event of an emergency you get your money back. Make sure it's on the contract. And cash up front? Is that even legitimate? Or is this an under the table job? read more

My wife and I got married here in October of this year. We could not have asked for a more perfect venue. Our goal of an outdoor rustic wedding was fully achieved here, everything was perfect! A main concern was saving money on decor and flowers by selecting a nice venue. This venue is absolutely beautiful all on its own, no extra decor needed! Throughout the whole process Dawn and Nathan were very helpful and informative regarding all details. We elected to pay extra for the clean up and table cloths which was well worth it. Once the DJ stopped, they stepped in and started cleaning while my bride and I left for our hotel without lifting a finger. If you're in need of a DJ, caterer, or day-of coordinator please use their recommendations. DJ Revenue was a fantastic MC and our coordinator Missy took care of every detail and then some. Also, the flexibility to use your own vendors here was a huge plus. If you're considering this venue, just book it already! read more

It is a little ridiculous how amazing my wedding was. I will leave a longer review a little later but seriously, every guest just loved it, and they made the whole experience worth it when everyone else just wanted my money. I am so happy and so THANKFUL to them. read more

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The lady that was running the place was so rude and very unprofessional. She has no people skills.

Still waiting for the return of my unused portion of my security deposit. I text messaged the owners in order to get a copy of how much of my deposit was used and how much was due to be returned. It's been almost two months without a response. I'm willing to remove this rating and post if this is resolved in a timely manner. Thank you. This is Meaghan S., bride from Nov 17, 2017. read more

We have done many events at Whispering Oaks Terrace (we own a BBQ Catering Company) and the venue is amazing. Especially if you are looking for a wedding venue that is rustic, and will let you decorate and set-up however you wish. There are multiple areas for your use, all included, including a new barn. The owners are amazing and very easy to work with. I would highly recommend you to contact Whispering Oaks Terrace if you are looking for an amazing Wedding Venue! read more

This venue is beautiful and the perfect setting for a rustic themed wedding. The price to rent it is reasonable and they have recommendations for different vendors that work well with this location. I gave three stars for a few reasons. Firstly, this is a non-smoking venue. Which I completely understand, I wouldn't want someone to be irresponsible and burn down my livelihood either. Guests are asked to leave the property to smoke if they need to, which my guests did. They walked down and across the (2 lane windy) road but were followed and told they were too close and I would lose my deposit. Nowhere in my contract does it state that we lose our deposit if someone is found smoking. We did not lose our deposit over this, our guests were just threatened with it. I found this to be rude and guests should not be threatened with the loss of money that is none of their concern to begin One suggestion I have to accommodate customers and guests is to provide a designated smoking area. Just something to think about... Secondly, there is a fee if you would like the owners to "clean-up" for you. All this includes is throwing trash bags away. You clean up everything else by throwing plates, cups, food, etc in the trash cans. Thank you for throwing our trash bags in the dumpster, had I known that this was all that was included with this fee, I would have saved us $300 & thrown our own trash away. Lastly, when we drove there to pay the remaining balance, the owner must have felt pretty comfortable with us. My fiance (now husband) asked if he had any advice for newlyweds.. the owner responded with "always keep it interesting." He then proceeded to tell us in detail the types of bedroom activities he & his wife practice. This was unprofessional, but our money was already paid and everything had been booked and we were stuck. But the venue itself is beautiful. It's large, even though there is minimal parking. There are a lot of great spots for pictures. We had roughly 180 guests that fit comfortably without having to rent any extra tables or chairs. read more

Wedding October 1, 2017. Great venue! Our daughter knew the minute her and her fiancé drove onto the property that this was the venue she wanted. It is a rustic and beautiful location and very clean. Ceremony was inside a small barn with white lights and tulle draped across the ceiling. Everything you need is on premises, plenty of parking for our 150 guests plus vendors, many compliments on how beautiful the outdoor reception was at night with all of the lights (very romantic). The couple sits in a gazebo in center. Dawn and Nathan are the owners and answered any questions we had. They have a list of suggested vendor's who were the best and also least expensive. You do not have to use any of their vendors but we are very glad we did. Melissa Ellis (day of coordinator who also owns Snap that Photo Booth ande husband Sadiki can bartend all at a great price), and Faultline Music. We found Kwasney Designs flowers who had come to the WOT wedding vendor's tea. All of these were excellent! read more

My dream wedding came true at this beautiful venue!! It is like a hidden gem. Everything about this place and the vendors surrounding it are completely magical. The two owners are very sweet and aren't pushy like some other wedding venues. I was very grateful we found them and will never get over the beautiful venue they have! read more

My daughter got married at Whispering Oaks Terrace Sept. 15th. and right from the beginning Bev and John Moramarco we excellent to work with. They are so accommodating to your every want or need. Bev answered her phone every time I called with my silly questions and she was so helpful. The venue is yours to do whatever you want which there is no other venue out there like this. Our wedding turned out better then we ever expected. Everone stayed to the end of the event. We had many of our guests tell us it was the best wedding they have ever been to. We paid to have the clean-up done so we left when it was over and when we arrived Sunday, everything was boxed up and ready to load into the cars. (Thanks Flower- you are awesome). We will use this venue again that is guaranteed. read more

Approaching my 2 year anniversary. What a great wedding it was here! You have access to pretty much do whatever you want! You can't beat the price either! read more

I got married here and I have no complaints. We did everything DIY and catered however we like. Very affordable and it fit all my guest!! They also have lots of props you can use for your event. The owners are awesome, easy to talk to, and very friendly. I could not have asked for a better wedding. It's beautiful during the day as well as night. The rustic look is so gorgeous. My wedding pictures came out great! I 100% recommend this place to anybody, whether it be a wedding, quince, outdoor event, anything, its the perfect place! read more

I am fast approaching my one year anniversary and am still amazed at how unbelievably amazing everything about this venue and their recommended vendors was. I am terrible at leaving reviews but was just looking back at all my pictures thinking how everyone helped to make my dream wedding a reality. They were available for any questions I had leading up to my wedding and were accommodating of everything that I wanted to do. I also highly recommend hiring Audrey as a photographer and Melissa as your coordinator. I had a complete stress free day thanks to everyone at this venue and it will always be one of my happiest memories to look back on read more

My husband and I had our wedding here June 2013 and it was such a amazing venue to use. Looking back at my pictures today remembering how great the staff was . read more

This venue was beautiful and perfect for our big day. We got married here April 21st and have received numerous compliments about the venue. It is a wonderful place because there are various areas to hold ceremony, dinner, and reception. The venue was quite cleaned up and the bridal suite looked spectacular. The owners were easy enough to get in touch with and didn't get frustrated with my many last minute questions. The owners were also quick to get heaters out, we didn't have to ask for a thing. Nathan was very friendly but I did find Dawn to be a bit rigid. I also didn't appreciate that they allowed tours of the venue on my wedding day. Dawn barged into the room and let strangers walk around the suite while my bridesmaids and I were getting ready and trying to relax. This is particularly irritating because roughly a year prior, I had made an appt to show some visiting friends and family around the venue but she forgot and when we showed up she told us we needed to leave immediately. Overall, a great venue for a wedding with beautiful features. read more

One star is being generous. Started off great by taking a tour with Nathan and getting some general information on this venue. He was very nice. It's a beautiful venue and very affordable, however, be aware of Dawn. She was extremely nice in the beginning but then tapered off as the time went on. I had to reach out several times and inquire about when my contract was going to be drawn up and sent over. Once I finally received it, the terms were completely different than what their website and brochure state. Nowhere does it say you only have 6 hours from ceremony start time to reception end time. It clearly states "you have the entire site from 9am-11pm". We are aware that city ordinance is 10pm so we planned on stopping music by 10 anyways. When I called to ask her about it just to clarify, she was so RUDE!! She actually said "if this is a problem then you don't need to get married at our venue". Ummm...okay. We have been planning a wedding in the middle of a pandemic which has been crazy enough, but to have our venue site be so rude when asked a question just to simply clarify before we pay them thousands of dollars, so sad and so frustrating. I even apologized for the confusion and still she was just cutting me off and continued with an attitude. After getting off the call my fiancé and I were so shocked and upset at how a simple clarification was taken so rudely that we started to have second thoughts about getting married there. Before we could even make a final decision about moving forward, they sent an email rescinding our contract My invitations are already printed so I have to reorder them and now we have been forced to find another venue in just 8 weeks. Be aware!! They do not conduct business well and this is such an important and huge day in all our lives! It's our wedding for goodness sake. read more

I can't say enough about the venue and staff. The staff were all knowledgeable, helpful, professional, and prompt. The venue was spotless and perfect for everything we did. I highly recommend Whispering Oaks Terrace to anyone looking for a top-notch venue in Southern California. read more

We have a new website name. We are Weddingsatwhisperingoaks.com. I can't figure out how to change our business listing so I'm hoping this will help you find us. That's www.weddingsatwhisperingoaks.com Thanks read more

I absolutely love this place. I have been here as a guest and a wedding planner and it is the perfect venue. The owners are great - easy to talk to, adaptable, honest and genuine. The venue itself has everything a rustic, vintage bride would desire - the barn, the mason jars - it's all there! I will 100% recommend this venue for my brides who want a barn wedding. read more

I absolutely love this place. It is a hidden rustic gem. I happen to know that sunday, October 11th, 2015 is available due to a change in my plans. However, my change does not reflect how wonderful I think this place is for a wedding or other major event. The owners are super nice and easy to work with. The have a great ceremony arbor and a rustic barn that I fell in love with. I recommend that you snatch up this date quick while it lasts. read more

Dawn and Nathan are amazing! From the time my fiancée and I saw the venue and met with them they made us feel at ease and were informative and helpful with every aspect of our planning. The annual brides tea they hold with the vendors is so helpful. We went with Hidalgo flowers at their suggestion, he is so fair in his pricing and he grows his own flowers! They recommend a wedding planner named Missy, she is the reason my day went smooth! Missy has it all down, I was feeling a little stressed and out of sorts when it came to prep and execution of everything and she took care of it all! I also did the donut bar and photo booth through her, it was a hit and we have so many cute photos of our guests! It was shockingly cold on our May wedding day and we paid to have the heaters brought out. Nathan was on site and had them out in no time. The next day we came to pick up the remainder of our stuff, and Dawn met us there with the remainder of our deposit, a hug and a congratulations. I can't tell you enough good things about this gorgeous rustic venue and the owners! I wish I could relive this day, that's how amazing it was! read more

I had my wedding reception at Whispering Oaks back on July 11th. Let me start by saying this venue is beautiful and the set up is great! But the reason I am giving this 3 stars is it is impossible to deal with the manager Nathan. He is impossible to work with! It's been over a month since my reception and I just now got my security deposit back today. On top of that I had to drive out to the venue because they forgot to mail it to us and weren't sure which address to mail it to and they only gave me $450 of my $500 deposit back because they "spent an hour the next morning cleaning up cups and cigarettes out of the parking lot and power washing the patio." All of our drinks were served in glass mason jars, so unless they found broken glass there were no cups to pick up. As far as the cigarettes go we only had 2 people that were smokers, my aunt and uncle, and the 2 of them told me they wouldn't smoke around all the non-smokers at our wedding. At the end of the reception my family and my groomsmen stayed for over an hour cleaning up the venue, my mom with a broom and dust pan. We were told by Jamie what a great job we did cleaning and the last thing to do was take the trash to the dumpster which my dad did before we left. Now Nathan the manager said that we were told by Jamie "to come back the next day to clean up for an hour." But this was never told to my dad who was in charge. It's so frustrating to give a negative review because we had an amazing time at this beautiful venue, but dealing with Nathan and not getting our full deposit back after working so hard to clean the venue after the reception has put me over the top. Unfortunately I would not recommend this venue solely based on the difficulty and frustrations we faced when trying to work with Nathan. read more