My wife has food poisoning because of this place. She's in great pain and she's going to miss work... She ordered the botana. Never again. Never again. We should contact a lawyer. *EDIT: notice I got the same 'canned' response, from the owner. I not only won't go back, but I'll tell everyone I know about our experience. read more

I was very disappointed in Los Tres Amigos. I have supported them for years. I placed a phone order, paid in advance and sent my son to pick it up. the order was missing items so I called to inform them. They gave me the option to refund the items or return. I returned to pick up my order. I had to tell two people about my phone discussion before getting help. It took way too long since I called in, in advance and she said it will be ready in 20 mins. When they gave me my the order it was still missing something and the lady stated that I only ordered one on the receipt and I said that I ordered two of all ( 2 chicken, 2 beef, 2 steak tacos)- plus my other items totaling $60, and that it would be courtesy for my time to give me the two tacos even if the cashier did not charge me for what I asked for. She went away and came back stating that they can't give me two tacos that I had not paid for. I told them that they forgot to give me all of my food and now I am returning to get the rest because of their mistake. I was so disappointed that they would prefer to lose my business instead of give me two tacos. Terrible customer service. There are several mexican restaurants in Canton. I told them I would not be back. read more

Just ok. First time back in 8 months and quite a bit has changed. They no longer serve beans with several of the meals. The rice was undercooked and did not have much flavor. When asking for the hotter salsa that is served with the chips they now charge $3 for that. The enchiladas were very good but errors were made on two of the four meals chicken served instead of steak. I did not like the check out process where I had to sign and tip promptly on the electronic ordering gadget used to place orders while the server waits at the table. Miss the previous colorful fun atmosphere inside since the remodel. Just disappointed because it was one of our favorite restaurants read more

Finally a 'burban Ameri-Mex place I actually quite enjoy. I was so shocked I had to go back just to make sure. Nope the first visit was no fluke. I likey. More importantly my husband liked it. Yay for a new local option, a straight shot up Belleville Rd/Canton Center for me, so I can have freeway avoidance. Happiness. I walked in and my eyes were assaulted by the atmosphere. Gah. Overkill on the kitsch, seriously. Despite the cool evening my husband made me sit inside because "bugs in my food will piss me off Liz". That is what he said, actions speak louder than words though, his Tiger game watching was oh so discrete with me strategically placed under the TV, mmmhmmm. It was kind of a shame because the patio looks like the best place to be, well unless you need to watch baseball. We were started with warm non greasy chips and some basic gringo salsa. Fresh. I asked about hotter salsa and they were quick and happy to oblige me with a very nice zippy sauce. In addition a little condiment tray on each table holds Tapatio, Cholula and 3 El Yucateca hot sauces (red habanero, green habanero and XXXtra Hot Kutbil-ik). This all made me feel better. I was intrigued by some options here. Lots of variety on the menu. This can be an asset or a restaurants downfall. I was reassured by Darin's review and dove in. Molcajete jumped out at me because it was something I had never heard of outside of being a mortar and pestle. Of course I ordered it. My husband went with a super platter that had a combo of steak, chicken and shrimp sauteed with peppers, onions and tomatoes that also came with (I kid you not) four cheese quesadillas. Priced at 12.50, it could have fed both of us, as it ended up he made two full meals out of it himself. My molcajete arrived in the supersize sizzling mortar bowl. A slab of chicken, a slab of steak and a slab of cactus jutted out of the sides. There was a simmering sauce with a pile of chorizo in it and strips (of what was labeled as queso fresco but I think may have actually been queso panela) cheese delightfully melting around it. Two grilled green onions with the largest heads I have ever seen were on either side and one whole giant freshly roasted jalapeno floats near the edge. It was ginormous and quite a show. They also brought some tortillas (you pick corn or flour) as well as a seperate plate full of white cheese covered beans and rice. I honestly had no clue where to begin. It was delightful. My only slight beef with it was that the steak was a tad bit chewy but bear in mind I am a total snob who hates sirloin (basically I only eat high end or slow cooked beef, yikes that sounds bad). Cutting the meat into small pieces worked well enough for me at any rate. The chicken, chorizo, cheese and cactus were very nice indeed. The onions cracked me up, just the look of them. The jalapeno was great in small doses and added fun bits of heat. I ended up taking a ton of it home. Again, enough for two meals. We revisited because I was still suspicious. We ate some terrific chicken tortilla soup, it manages to be brothy yet oddly creamy as well as light yet full of chicken. Order some, I can see this becoming a fall go to for me. James had the fajitas in a pineapple, aka Fajipina, dish which he loved and I ordered his super platter because we wanted to two meal it with big leftovers again. Happily they let me get it without the steak and just get more chicken and shrimp instead. Yay! Yep plenty still. The staff on both occasions were quick with refills, fine with special requests and very friendly. The place was clean and had plenty of staff keeping it that way. Drinks look freaking huge and there were plenty of specials going on them. They have buck tacos on Mondays and half off apps every night after 8pm. Yep we will be back. I have to manage a margarita sometime, they look promising as well as big. Ooooh or maybe a Pacifico. I have to come back at least twice obviously. read more

I have several friends who lived either along the U.S. Border with Mexico, or well into the interior around Mexico City. They all tell me that if you want authentic Mexican food, you have to hop on an airplane and head to Texas if you want some great food. However, if you prefer to stay around the local area, and still enjoy Mexican fare, then I have to recommend Los Tres Amigos in Canton. I went there with my friend the other day, and was rather amazed at the interior of this establishment. I won't spoil it for everyone, but its really different from what I am used to seeing at some other places. One clue I will give is think "animation." I ordered a quartet of shrimp enchiladas, and a beef tamale. It's been ages since I had a tamale, and it was very good. However, most of them I have enjoyed in the past were completely round. This one however, was more like a burrito. Nevertheless, the enchiladas were excellent, and the portions were so large that I will finish off the rest tonight for dinner after bringing a doggie bag home. The friend that was with me loves hard-shell tacos. He had three beef tacos with sour cream, and a mixture of vegetables. He said these were a cut above the other he's a had lately at other nearby Mexican Restaurants. So if you're looking a place that serves really good Mexican food, and don't have time to fly south of border for the real deal, then head over to Canton for some great food. The only reason I am not giving this review five stars, is due to the fact the men's bathroom was out of order, and had been that way for a few hours. There's nothing like having dinner with a few drinks, and having to go outside and find yourself a friendly tree that isn't being used by a overly territorial canine. read more

Los Tres Amigos - This was a very tasty beef tamale. - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

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OMG. What a terrible experience. I booked a Widow/Widowers Friendship Event for 24 people (a month in advance) to have dinner/drinks at this location. I dropped by the day before to confirm and was told that they could no longer accommodate us due to staffing issues. Hello, when where you going to let me know? Some advance notice would have been great! Totally unprofessional and I will never frequent a Tres Amigos restaurant again. read more

Absolutely terrible, watery, tasteless mess, zero star-worthy (sigh). My wife wanted to go here for her birthday on June 14th. I apologized to her for the terrible experience. We had the Chimichanga de Camaron and the Burrito Amigos. The burrito beef was full of gristle. The only thing I ate in the chimichanga was the shrimp. The rice was dry and flavorless. The refried beans and melted cheese (??) looked like lava mud erupting from a snow capped volcano. The staff seemed very distant and non-attentive. It's almost as if they knew the place was "going down the tubes". Could be true, looking at other reviews, this place has been in trouble for a very long time. We told them that we absolutely hated our dinners; no comment from them.. Please, please do not go here. I made a $35+ mistake, but you don't have to. This is a sad commentary on United States restaurants. Quality appears to be declining everywhere. read more

Taco salad was just meat and lettuce swimming in flavorless greasy beef. Sent it back did not reorder. Wouldn't go back.

Had the Amigos Burrito. Delicious. So far some of the best Mexican food I've had in Michigan.

Food was great. Tried molcajete for the first time and it was great. Will definitely be back. read more

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One star is to much for this place. My order was bad so I asked my waiter can I change my order for something else he said I still had to pay for the bad order. So I asked to speak to the manager. The manager came over and immediately started arguing with me. He would not let me talk he said my food was perfect. I said when can I talk. I have never been treated like this before. We had a party of six and no one ate their meals. Do not go here!! it is best to go the extra mile to Mexicantown. read more

First and foremost, our waitress was awesome considering the circumstance. The circumstance that No One wants to work!! Not just here but anywhere! She was working her tail off even though she was truly overloaded with tables. Yet she was still calm, and continuously asked if we were ok and if anything was needed. Yes, we made sure to care of her. There was NO Bartender, No Runner, only a couple Waiters besides her to cover all the Patrons. Due to all this the food and alcoholic drinks came out late and the food was good but not a WOW! To this establishment behalf, They have had a 'Now Hiring sign' posted but apparently no one has been inquiring. read more

Nice Patio. Came for lunch. Decent value. Lunch margarita special was good. Salsa is very bland and almost flavorless. Fajita Salad was good but was very watery which ruined the bowl. Waiter was attentive but was extremely hard to understand. I prefer other Mexican choice locally. Now I remember why I hadn't been in awhile. Nothing memorable - average food. read more

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If I could give zero stars, I would. We arrived 6:00 p.m. Sunday, Feb. 26th. Signs were posted for patrons to be patient, as they were short-staffed. Completely understandable. We were shown to a not yet cleaned table. It was immediately cleaned and we sat down. No menus were given to us. No silverware on the table. After a few moments, we got up and got our own menus. Our orders were taken shortly after. Drinks arrived, but no straws. Our crumbs, not chips, but crumbs, arrived. Salsa came in a container, but no bowls. We were informed as soon as some were available they would be brought to us. They never arrived, despite asking for them. We had to ask for silverware once our food arrived and had to wait 5 minutes for that. When one orders fajitas, you expect to get tortillas. I had to ask for them, twice. They still didn't come to the table. Our waitress came to check on us, and I informed her we never got the tortillas. My husband told her we wanted my meal taken off the bill at this point, as my food had gone cold, and to bring the bill for his food. She did bring a container for us to go, along with the tortilla shells, but honestly, at this point, our date night meal was completely ruined. People who came in after us, got whole chips, straws with their drink, bowls for their salsa, and their meals all before we ever got served our food. I understand being short staffed. I understand sometimes stuff just happens. But the entire 60 minute ordeal was nothing but one tragic event after another. At that point, the manager should have been the one bringing the bill and apologizing for whatever disaster was going on that evening. We'll never return. read more

food: I had the jalapeño cucumber margarita which was amazing. Unfortunately, that was the only enjoyable menu item. I ordered el queso fundido because the ones at the regular Los Amigos chains is delicious. But this one was made with a different type of cheese instead of queso chihuahua. The cheese used at this restaurant tasted and looked like plain mashed potatoes. It was curdled, and el chorizo was extremely greasy with some burnt pieces. Ambience: Our server was great. Very attentive and all the workers we interacted were overall very kind. It was just the food that was disgusting and the lighting was a sad attempt at bistro lighting. The food is more suited for white people who don't know what good Mexican food tastes like. They were the majority there anyway. Si eres paisa, no comas aquí. Ve a los amigos Don Juan o fiesta para comer comida mexicana buena. read more

Los Tres Amigos - Queso Fundido. Wack. - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

Great Mexican restaurant! I've been here a few times and I've always left happy. Delicious food, decent prices, friendly staff, and clean restaurant. I've always been welcomed and seated right away. They have a large dining area so I've never seen a wait. The food always comes quickly and tastes great. Lunch specials during the week. I was there for lunch on a Friday and they had a $2.99 margarita special. I'm not sure if this is an everyday lunch special. If so, make sure to order one! Overall- great experience every time. This has become our "go to" Mexican restaurant in Canton. read more

Los Tres Amigos - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

Came here with the same crew from last time.. I have to say it was a disappointment. The food was mediocre.. the nachos looked like a taco salad, chips were stale.. it just wasn't as good as before.. we left half the food.. I won't be rushing back.. The decor is beautiful! Makes it feel more festive! The restaurant seemed clean, it was pretty busy for a Friday early dinner. People were definitely enjoying their huge drinks!! They had a selection of beers on draft and a friend ended up getting one he enjoyed. Their chips and salsa are on point. Salsa is mild but they have a selection of hot sauces you can add. Chips are fresh warm and crisp! We also got some guacamole which was good! Everyone liked their dish and I got the fajita taco salad which was pretty good! Their dessert selection looked good but after the meals no one was up for dessert! Would come back to try different items! The staff was friendly and accommodating! Food was good but took some time coming out! I enjoyed the music and decor, defiantly felt like a fiesta! read more

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I have never left a restaurant review in my life before. but wow. the food was disappointing but the service specifically was overwhelmingly unprofessional and horrendous. at this location of Los tres, I decided to pay the bill and not say anything about how soggy and lackluster it tasted, so I could just pay and leave and not return to this location again. I understand sometimes the cooks just aren't the best, that's understandable. I'll still pay them for making the food, I just won't go there again. however... the service here was even worse than the food. I have never seen staff talk so poorly, aggressively, and even offensively about the diners in the restaurant. I noticed very quickly (as well as frequently) throughout the night that the wait staff would openly and quite loudly complain or say offensive things about the diners in passing to each other while they are in the aisles of the restaurant, and especially right next to the kitchen area where our table was sat. no filter, no volume control, just openly slinging insults. for instance, the second they took my untouched plate and before even being out of earshot I could hear the staff unprofessionally making comments about how I didn't touch my plate, and once they got into the kitchen it turned into yelling/ranting. if I would've received service they might've known I did not enjoy it, however we never got service after we received our plates to begin with. they gave us our plates, and after that we didn't see anyone. we were never checked on for refills (boyfriend had to have his meal without a drink), no one checked on us to see if food was okay, no basic server etiquette at all. we had been finished, stacked all our plates, condensed the table, and even cleaned up for them and they were still walking by our table happily and blissfully ignorant without acknowledging us simply wanting to just leave already. I had to ask some random server for the bill because we had been waiting to leave for awhile (and waited 15 minutes for our check, he never came back). finally the one girl decided to come back once she was ready for her tip without even doing the bare minimum. If I believed in not tipping, this restaurant would've received nothing. i know I dont own and run a business, but if management is aware their staff behaves like children throwing tantrums over small things like a diner not liking their water logged and unflavorful elote..... that's not a business I would like to support anymore. read more

I just wanted to say how much I loved my visit to tres amigos tonight. I am learning Spanish and my server Eric and Jaime both conversed with me and I loved connecting. it was a lot of fun and I feel I made some friends. I enjoyed the food any company. we even decided to stay longer to spend time with the amazing staff even though they were hard at work. thank you Eric and Jaime. Mucho gusto! -V read more

Pretty good Tex-Mex, only ordered vegetarian, Chile rellenos lunch was more than enough for me.

This has consistently been our go to for Mexican food in the local area. Having grown up in Southern California, I can say that the food here is pretty authentic, especially for what you can get in Michigan. I have not been disappointed by the food, and I have been coming here for four years since moving to Canton. Also, the service is exceptionally fast and friendly every time I come here. Highly recommended! read more

Los Tres Amigos - Carnitas grilled extra crispy! Absolutely delicious! - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

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Terrible front of the house service. We sat on the patio. We received chips, salsa, water and an iced tea....that was it, no one ever came back. After about 30 min of waiting for someone to return to take our order (mind you other people were being waited on) we put $5 on the table and left. Before we got to the parking lot there was someone there picking up the money but they could not be bothered to take our orders. We will spend our money elsewhere. read more

This place is a great Mexican restaurant! The food is always great and tasteful. Even when they're busy. They serve you quickly and the waiter is always ready to help or get you anything you'd need with your food. Like any other Mexican restaurant they serve fresh chips with salsa mild and hot when you first get seated. They got amazing fresh quac on top of that! They have a full bar in the corner and can make possibly anything you need. They make amazing margaritas with different flavors... I usually always get the fajitas and they're amazing-it comes out on a hot skillet and well seasoned with tortillas, sour cream, rice and beans on the side. One of my favorite Mexican restaurants in the area. Close to home on top of that, in the summer they have a full patio out doors... Which is great during hot evenings eating outside. read more

Like a previous review I would give 0 if it was an option. We waited an hour and a half to get food and only eventually got it after complaining about the wait. Deliveries and customers sitting outside seemed to get preferential service. Food was okay but not worth the wait! Definitely would not recommend it! And also my 53year old partner got asked for ID, but as we are on holiday did not have his passport at the restaurant so couldn't even have an alcoholic drink! Appreciate that staff need to make sure you are old enough but by no stretch does he look under 21! Poor show all round! read more

Food - GREAT! Service - GREAT! Price - GREAT!!! All in all a terrific and tasty lunch experience. I had a quesadilla relleno with beef (not ground mind you, but braised shredded beef that was fork tender and flavorful). My wife has 3 steak tacos and again the meat was perfect, tender and good-flavor. Will be returning! read more

Food was alright. Service was uninviting waitress took a long time to greet non welcoming, once food arrived there were no check backs. Ambiance was cool. I will not be returning, nor my family! read more

We've tried LTA several times and it seems we are always disappointed in some way. While my spouse liked her meal that was served moderately warm, mine was so cold and unappetizing that I did not eat it. I mentioned this to the server. A 35% discount ($5.25) was applied to my meal and deducted from a $60 bill. Just very disappointing, will never return. read more

We've been going here for years. It's typically pretty good but lately the food has gone down hill. Last time I was in, the plants dividing the kitchen from the dining, were so Duarte and with COVID, I would think they would up the game. The last takeout, 2 weeks ago was so unorganized our food sat for like 10 minutes while we were in the restaurant so by the time we got it home, it was cold. Plus the flavors aren't there any More. Must have changed chefs. read more

We all know it is hard to get enough workers to work. With that being said, how refreshing to have dedicated workers and great food and drinks to make for an enjoyable dinner! The burritos were awesome and the fish tacos with special sauce were wonderful. Keep it up. The pandemic and shortage of workers won't last forever. read more

I love this place! Food is always hot and fresh. Tortilla soup is very good and the chicken is super tender!

Great patio, quick service & good Mexican food. The salsa is delicious! Alfredo our server was attentive and super friendly. Will be back! read more

Los Tres Amigos - Enchiladas Suizas - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

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It was short staffed. Probably because nobody wants to work during Covid. My server was brand new and super super nice. And the food was a lot. I will come back again. I really also love the margaritas here. read more

Come for the artwork, stay for a couple of drinks before eating elsewhere. The food is remarkably mundane considering the amazing, cartoon-like primitive art that covers every table, chair and booth. The huge romance novel mural of the Aztec warrior carrying away a clearly willing senorita is also worth a look. The food is no better than the most average of strip mall Mexican restaurants. I hope they get a new chef. read more

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I went in on a Tuesday night and there were a moderate number of people dining. Some of my first impressions were that it is very clean & tidy, the decor is great for the Mexican dining experience. The wait staff were very friendly, and the service was quick. This is what got them the two stars. On to the food now. The chips were bland and clearly out of a bag. The salsa was worse. It was like smooth marinara sauce trying to pass off as salsa. YUCK! My carne asada was ready in literally 4 minutes. This told me that everything else had been pre-made and pre-plated. The meat was an OK cut of skirt steak, but again - absolutely without flavor. Actually, nothing of the entire meal had any real flavor. All in all, it was barely OK. I certainly won't go back as I continue to attempt to duplicate my Rosarita and Ensenada dining experiences. read more

Los Tres Amigos - Mexican Near Me - Canton, Michigan

I wanted to like it but super disappointing. Got delivery and it took an hour and fifteen minutes and it all arrived cold. The crispy chips were soggy by arrival. Mexican food does not reheat very well- especially when fresh ingredients like lettuces, pico or tomato, guac, etc that is supposed to be cold is thrown on top and what used to be hot has to be removed before you can heat it up so you don't ruin what's supposed to be cold. Also the shredded chicken and pork were bland, the queso dip was not worth the cost- the size vs. price was very disappointing. They put onions on the items I specifically noted no onions and they were small and diced tiny so super hard to pick off... they also forgot the soft tortillas that were supposed to come with the queso fundito. The rice was dry and tasteless. And nothing had beans which honestly I didn't miss as I suspect they would have been just as bland as the rest of our order. Wish there was something that stood out as good but no...the chips maybe? I guess the fundito was good after I reheated it in an actual oven- could not microwave re-heat anything as it all comes packaged in aluminum to go containers read more

I'm a 2... Ken's 3 made our combined score a 2.5 = 3 stars. They were packed the weeknight that we went, with people actually waiting to dine in, and Ken having to park in the back next to the garbage dumpster. I was expecting something amazing! Salsa was good, with a nice heat level. Chips were average. I chose the Shrimp Chimi because the menu description said it was loaded with shrimp, smothered in cheese dip. Oooh! What it really came loaded with was chunks of stewed tomato and slices of onion. Five small shrimp in the whole thing (and a can of tomatoes - blech). Refried beans were average, as was the Mexican rice... and the cheese dip too. Nothing special. Ken went with the Burrito al Carbon - strips of steak inside, cheese dip outside. He said he liked it, but he wouldn't get the dish again. The beef had little flavor. Service was a tad forgetful, but I may chalk that up to the crowd. The decor was a bit much, with bright color splashed on every surface that stood still long enough to get painted. Loud too. read more

This place is off the beaten path of of crazy Ford Rd. When you walk in, you are immediately immersed in a rainbow of bright tropical colors. It is beautiful...Our table was almost to pretty to sit at! Our waiter (Dambian..sp?) was so nice. The service was fast and always with a smile : ) I asked for hotter salsa and he brought out a MUY MUY CALIENTE sauce. It was a reddish/brown, thick sauce and OMG HOT! So I mixed a little of that with the green habanero and red sauce and I was good to go. We immediately received hot chips, which were light, not so light that they crumbled, and not heavy and greasy. They were lightly salted PERFECT. We all started off with LARGE ($8) margaritas. They were good and tasty, but not $8 good and tasty. Thankfully they weren't too intoxicating, but for $8 I should taste some top shelf tequila in there. Don't get me wrong, the lime tasted good, but I wanted a little more tequila taste. I hade the Burrito Verde and it was YUM ($9). To me, the quality justified the price. It's not a huge portion, but it was perfect, for me. It's not Canton's Mexican Fiesta...(which is blech..to this place). The burrito with filled with nicely seasoned and marinated shredded beef, which was cooked perfectly. NO FAT and very tender. The green verde sauce reminded me much of a suiza sauce. I noted that they had a suiza burrito too..so I may try that next time. NOW here is the kicker! I don't usually eat the rice served with the meal, but I ate the rice, served here. It was light and flavorful. Most of the time this is just a second thought and very mushy..The beans were perfect. Nice flavor. One of the girls had the Filipina. The presentation alone was awesome! There was so much food. She said the flavor was awesome; a little sweet to go with the spice. Also noted, usually you get more peppers and onions rather than the meat...in this dish you got a lot of chicken, steak and shrimp. Another friend ordered the Molcaljete, which was recommended by Dambian. Again, interesting presentation. It was tricky to eat. They should actually give you a small plate so that you can prepare your taco. She had to eat some of her rice and then take items from the Molcaljete bowl and prepare her taco. She said it was good. Nice seasoning. I don't think it was her favorite dish. I tried the cactus and was surprised that it didn't have a sweet flavor. It just tasted like a grilled green veggie. With three margaritas and three entrees our bill came to $61. yeah, pricey but the service, atmosphere and quality (and unique items) justified the $$. read more

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1 chicken burrito, 1 enchilada dinner , bag of chips and 2 hot sauce.... $46.00 ??? If I wasn't so hungry and Mexican fiesta had the doors locked up I would've left that bag right on the counter. a single bag of food for two people again $46 ???????????? I can appreciate that it's carry out only but you don't need to take advantage of the people in the neighborhood. Disgraceful I'll go to Taco Bell before I come to los Tres amigos read more

Food is average at that. Will not go there anymore. I will drive to Mexican town before I come here again.

I ordered takeout and was told 20 minutes. My husband arrived in 20, asked for our order and then waited 30 more minutes to be told, they didn't have the order. They seemed confused and asked what was ordered. He told them and then waited another 30 minutes for them to respond, they never did. While waiting, he saw others leave in frustration, for the same reason. Others, who had paid over the phone, asked for their money back. During this time, I called (because I had placed the order), I got the fax machine sound on the first call. On the second, it was answered and as I started to explain why I was calling, he hung up on me. I assumed it was a mistake, and I called right back, fax machine again. Super frustrating, as by now, they just ignored any customers still waiting for a takeout order. No apologies, awful customer service! I had recently visited the Northville location and had wonderful service and food, I was of course, hoping for the same. Unfortunately, this was an epic fail on the Canton location's part. I completely understand a long wait on a busy Saturday night, but to wait all that time and then be completely ignored and walk away with no food or an apology was a new and very unacceptable outcome! read more