Nate has adjusted all my bicycles - E-bikes and road/gravel bikes. I was having recurring pain as I've aged, Nate's suggested alterations and adjustments have allowed me to have a pain free experience. I realize as I get older this service becomes more and more important. I highly recommend his expertise in all things cycling. read more

The biggest mistake in my five years of cycling is not getting a quality bike fit sooner. And I can't recommend Nate Loyal's bike fitting services enough. I instantly felt so much more comfortable on my bike after working with Nate, and my knee no longer weirdly moves side to side as I pedal. Nate's also a really fun and interesting guy to talk to. You'll learn a lot in the couple hours you spend with him in your fitting session, and you'll enjoy shooting the breeze with him as well. Really can't recommend him enough! read more

Awesome service and fitting - it's obvious why this is one of the best reviews in LA. I got a completely different bike than I walked in with. Thanks! read more

Loyal Bike Fitting and Coaching - Bikes Near Me - Santa Monica, California

Nate is highly knowledgeable when it comes to bikes, but better yet extremely knowledgeable when it comes to racing on bikes and being comfortable. He's one of the few fitters that I have met that is not extremely aggressive yet understands the dynamics of a short race versus a long race. I highly recommend his services to anyone from a beginner to an expert. This would be my second bike that I am taking to him and I will say he understood exactly what I needed and worked with me. read more

I have been a serious cyclist for a few decades now. Over that time, I have had multiple bikes and multiple bike fitters. Nate is one of the best there is for bike fitting in SoCal. Nate's approach to bike fitting is thoughtful. He takes time to talk to you about your physiology and history of (if any) injuries prior to beginning the fitting. He even had me walk up and down the hallway to examine my gait and and identify any asymmetries that could translate to pain on the bicycle. Ultimately, I got a great fit from Nate from the bike all the way down to the precision cleat fitting. I try to see Nate at least once per year when I'm riding hard to ensure that my fit and cleat position remains optimal. Even better, Nate is not a "salesman"--he will treat you honestly and focus on the fundamentals of bike fit. I highly recommend Nate for your bike fit and cleat fit. read more

Nate dialed me in on my road bike, I'm so comfortable and power has increased also. Nate is absolutely the best bike fit expert anywhere in my opinion. read more

I like Nate. He is a good guy and fun to talk with. You don't mind paying him for his services because you will see that he works hard for his money. His fees are reasonable for the service he provides. I hate paying my doctor for spending 10 minutes with me. Nate spends a lot more time with you than most medical professionals ever have. And his services can help you from needing medical care from a poorly set up bike. Nate fits you on your bike the old fashioned way, based on his 20+ years of fitting experience, knowledge of body types, manufacture frame geometry, your flexibility, your goals, and your riding experience and his custom measurements. He can even take apart and rebuild a bike if he wants to make it fit right. Biking is his life, and when not fitting folks, he is coaching riders or riding himself. He is 110% cyclist. He doesn't use any fancy fitting computers other fitters learn in a crash weekend fitting course and they hang out a shingle. Companies that make those computers sell training and certifications generating a sea of fitting charlatans. Take away their computer and they would crash in a second. I shopped around before calling Nate more than a year ago for my first fitting and recently had a supplement fitting after changing my saddle and shoes and cleats. When you are considering bike fitters, ask yourself this key question: If you were offered a plane flight by 2 pilots, one who has more than 20 years of successful flying experience in all kind of planes and in all kinds of situations, OR a pilot who was trained on a flight simulator and has limited real world experience. Who are you going to fly with? read more

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THE BEST ! sadly Yelp doesn't let me end the review here... but there really nothing more to add... Nate is really the best....yes, he might not have time to schedule you in right away and will make you wait a lil longer... but thats only bcuz, yep, you guessed it - He is THE BEST ! :) Saw him twice for 2 different bikes unimaginable difference between the before & after. Super nice, super knowledgable always good conversations all around pro. If you need a bike fir ( which we all do ) Nate is your guy ! read more

I want to thank you for your excellent work. Nate knows what is he doing,he understands perfectly, and sees exactly what you want to get from roding your bike. I have been to it twice (2 different bikes). Both times work was done flawlessly, my trips became more convenient despite thE fact that they became longer in distance and time. I haven't dealt with other fit specialists, but, you know what I want to say you guys?:) I don't want to contact other specialists, because Nate is specialist from capital letter S. I have not met so friendly, open people, who sincerely want to help you. Not one of my questions after fit, which I asked in mail,didn't remain unanswered. Nate always trying to do everything in his power. I would like to say again Thank you, and wish that would be at round us more personalities as Nate. Good luck everyone. read more

Nate Loyal - Bike Fitter - The Best! I'm a long-time believer in bike fitting, and have had them done across several bikes at different places around LA over the years. When I bought my Super Six, I had a very perfunctory fit at the shop closest to me (a well-respected LBS) because...well...it was gonna be cheap and given that I had just spent $$ on the bike and a bunch of upgrades. cheap was good. Turns out - not so good. I never felt dialed in to the bike, and a really annoying pain in my shoulder reappeared after having not bothered me for a really long time. Doing a lot of research, I decided to get another fit with Nate Loyal, who comes down from Santa Barbara to LA two days a week to do fittings at Helen's Cycles in Santa Monica. Before I got on the bike, he measured every position and angle so he'd have a baseline to compare to. Then, after observing me ride, he adjusted everything, from cleat position, to seat height and position, to stem angle, to hood position. The fitting lasted over two hours. Maybe longer. Oh - and no computers. it's now been a bit over a month since the fitting, and with about 400 miles under my belt, I can't begin to describe how much more I'm enjoying riding. No neck and shoulder pain. Gone. Amazing. But more so - I'm riding faster and longer with minimal fatigue. It's not a hyperbole to say that I'm having more fun on the bike than I've had for years! It feels like a whole new bike! Bottom line: he's a master fitter - and cycling coach. If you're in Southern California and need a fit, this is your guy! read more

Nate Loyal is a god among men. (That's what I entitled my first Strava ride on my newly-fitted TT bike, where I got a solid 22 achievements and 4 QOMs. If you're not a total online data dork and don't know what that means... it just means I was super fast as a result of the bike fit.) I cannot stress enough what a gigantic game changer a proper bike fitting is. I upgraded my ride this fall and knew I needed to get it fit to me, but didn't realize just how much better I'd feel with the adjustments. I'd done a really long hard ride on the bike which had demoralized me, since I was super unstable descending. I also couldn't get into the aero position with my new setup, since I have a short torso and the bars were just too far out and my geometry wasn't balanced. Nate immediately spotted everything that was out of balance and went to fixing it right away, all while chatting genially (he's a rad dude.) We shortened my stem, raised my seat, so on, so forth, and by the end of the session, I was already feeling infinitely more comfortable on the bike, and now had a pedal stroke that would optimize my pedal stroke, increasing my power. Off the trainer, it was like I was on a whole new bike. I think it's akin to how it feels to have a tailor make you your own dress or suit, as opposed to buying some cheapass thing from Ross. I went from "I can do work on this thing, but ow, my shoulder" to "I AM A BEAST". My bike and I are one. And Nate brought us together. He's worth all the money in the world. You can spend thousands on a bike, but if you don't get a fit, it still won't matter. And you can spend way less on a bike, and if properly fit, you might be more efficient than Mister Carbon over there with his knees splayed out. End summary: go get a fit. You will be the happiest cyclist ever. read more

Nate Loyal is a professional bike fitter. If you ride professionally, recreationally, or for any serious length of time you should have your bike fit to you. Most importantly it prevents injury, but it can also increase performance, correct your form, and overall improve your ride. Nate is outstanding. A session with him takes about an hour to an hour and a half to get fully dialed-in. He works out of Helen's Cycles in Santa Monica, but does not work for them. That means if you need to add parts to your ride you can go downstairs and get hooked up without having to run out to another bike shop. Helen's is a great shop, by the way, and have good prices on quality gear. Nate races and trains professionally. You can absolutely trust him to fit you properly and give you expert advice on how to get the most out of your bike experience. At time of writing his cost is $165 for the head to toe fit, and best of all he takes Paypal. read more

Loyal Bike Fitting and Coaching - Bikes Near Me - Santa Monica, California

I've been a serious cyclist since 1972 and have had many professional level bikes in these past 50 years. I've gotten many "bike shop fits" some better than others, but never perfect. Admittedly, I'm far from the perfect cyclist, just a not so fast enthusiast. Well, here I am, 72 years old, a recipient of several medical "procedures", some major, and still cycling on, fortunate enough not to have ever had a major crash, either solo or assisted. Several people in my club, Conejo Valley Cyclists, had spoken highly of Nate and his fitting skills so I decided to bite the bullet, spend the money, and see if he had sage advice on how to improve my comfort, performance, and enjoyment of the sport. So last week i met with Nate, spent a couple of hours with him and the results, well, in a word, AMAZING! I'm not particularly faster after the fitting, but oh so much more comfortable (at 72 that's important!) and can ride on for several hours without any significant discomfort. Along with the fitting he also suggested several techniques, stretches etc. I could do while riding to enhance the pleasure of the ride. I will never be 40 again, or 50 or 60, but when I hope on my bike I certainly feel younger and more vibrant. So hey, you've probably spent lots of money on your bike, your kit, and the various other trappings you need to take up the sport (or are thinking of doing all of the aforementioned), so do yourself a favor. Spend a bit more money and make sure your bike fits you. You wouldn't buy an expensive suit, shoes, shirt, tie etc. without having the tailor do a few tweaks to ensure you look your very best. Why wouldn't you want to maximize you cycling experience? read more

In late 2020 I picked up cycling as a way to keep fit when everything shut down. I quickly discovered that I loved nothing more than hitting the hills and doing long weekend rides with friends. Having never gotten a proper fit on the used bike I bought, I started developing a nagging pain in my right knee when climbing, which stuck around even on the flats. I did tons of research on fitters and when I discovered Nate and saw his reputation I promptly booked my appointment. All I can say is WOW. all of the adjustments he made (longer stem, handlebar adjustment, seat, and cleats) it truly felt like I was on a completely different bike. He also gave me tips on ideal cadence, and since then I've gotten a bike computer and cadence sensor to keep myself in a sweet spot. I've been able to get back to climbing, and with absolutely zero pain! I can't thank Nate enough for his help, so stoked to be riding again pain free! read more

I only wish there were 5 more stars to give to Nate. His fantastic reputation is well deserved. Nate is a perfectionist and takes his time to make your bike fitting exactly right just for you. This past week he did a fitting for me which I badly needed. I no longer have a sore butt, neck or arms. My ride is that much better and enjoyable thanks to Nate. Nate is personable and professional as well as being a very interesting person who has excelled in life and his career. I would highly recommend him for any bike fitting or coaching. read more

Nate was unreal. I bought a Tri Bike from another state so I didn't get a fitting from the store. After taking my new wheels out for a couple of short test rides, it was evident I really needed a proper fit (sore shoulders and lower back). Went to Nate yesterday and my fitting was a great experience. Very chatty and easy going. I went for a test ride this afternoon and it felt perfect. Pre Nate, 90km bike leg.. no way. Post.. easy! Thanks mate. read more

After weeks of researching different bike fitters and coaches online, I decided to go with Nate and I'm glad I did. I had my fit done at Helen's in Santa Monica where Nate had a full room dedicated to fitting. During the fitting process Nate shared a ton of knowledge and personal experiences and I feel I walked away with better riding techniques as well as a great bike fit. Sitting on my bike now vs pre fit is a world of difference. Highly recommend getting a fit done through Nate. read more

A proper bike fitting is priceless... I have been riding road bikes now for about a year. I regularly do 30-40 miles 2-3 times a week around Palos Verdes. The day after each ride I always had lateral knee pain on my right side. When I first got the bike I was set up by a non-professional based on what he "thought looked right." I made an appointment and finally went to visit Nate this past Fri. over at Helen's Cycles in Santa Monica. The fit took about 1.5 hrs and he changed everything. Seat was raised substantially as were my bars. More importantly, he adjusted my cleat position and gave me 6 degree's of float for both my feet. All of his conclusions came after many measurements, fancy angle locator thingies, and observations. That day I did a 30 mile ride with lots of climbing as well as a 50 mile ride the following day. I had a smile on my face the whole time as I didn't experience any knee pain. No amount of forum readings and peer discussions about your fit will provide the results of visiting a professional. Nate Loyal knows his stuff and is VERY friendly. Right off the bat he makes you feel comfortable and welcome. Thanks Nate! You will be my first stop when I get a new ride (hopefully soon as I want me some Di2) read more

Went to Nate this past week in anticipation of riding my bike from SF to LA for the AIDS LifeCycle. And holy lord, was it worth every penny. This weekend I tackled two long rides and each one seemed to be a breeze. No more cramping in between the shoulder blades. No more hands going numb. And my lower back was not achy afterwards either. Not to mention, he's a super nice, low key guy. Definitely not some crazed, intimidating guru who's out to make you feel like an ass (I have only been riding since January). The whole process takes about an hour and a half. And he is completely open to you picking his brain about any cycling techniques, tips, questions, what have you. When I first leaned bike fitting was a "thing," I thought it was a sham (shouldn't they do that when you buy a bike). But it was worth every penny. No more aches and pains, and I feel like it improved my biking by a significant amount. He has a bajillion five star reviews for a reason... read more

As a burgeoning triathlete, I will be forever "Loyal" to Nate when I need a fitting! It's stressful enough learning to ride a road bike when you transition from running to triathlons. Having a great fitting bike takes some of the pressure off (literally, in some, er, areas), and it's important to find a knowledgeable fitter who understands the nuanced differences in the bio-mechanics of a newbie, versus those of a pro, and everything in-between. Nate has a comprehensive background of being a cyclist and triathlete himself, a coach, a bike mechanic and physical therapist. Before I had a fitting, he came to my Team in Training practice to speak about bike fit, and spoke with such passion and expertise on the subject that, instantly, I knew that I would be in great hands. Not only is Nate a knowledgeable pro, but he is kind, caring and gives tips on form and technique while you're on the trainer. As a newbie cyclist, I hadn't yet started with clipless pedals, but Nate told me to bring mine in, adjusted them, and even gave me a little clip-in lesson. When all is said and done, it's like having a brand new bike! After being fitted, I am so much more confident on the bike and I look forward to long rides instead of dreading the pain. He even keeps all of your info on file so that, when you need to come in for an adjustment, or you get a new bike, he will spend less time (and will charge less than the initial appointment). I consider Nate's services to be the best investment a cyclist can make in their sport. You won't regret it! read more

I biked from SF to LA 8 times without ever getting a bike fitting, but my age caught up to me and my physical therapist said I needed a professional fitting if I wanted my knees to survive. I went to Nate and he was amazing. I went out on the road the next day and got my fastest time ever on my favorite lunchtime route -- an improvement that I've sustained. I wasn't doing the fit to increase my speed, but that's a measure of how much he improved my efficiency immediately, with just a few careful adjustments. He also gave me great coaching on things like cadence and handling turns. I've always been nervous, slow, and over-cautious on downhills, but by implementing his advice on turning, I've gotten faster, better-controlled, and MUCH more comfortable going downhill. Nate's always a really easy-going guy and was a pleasure to spend time with during the fit. I can't recommend him highly enough. read more

If I were an orangutan, I would use my feet to give Nate FOUR enthusiastic thumbs way, way up! I've been to two other fitters over the years and Nate is as knowledgeable or moreso than others, but the chief difference with Nate is the care & patience he puts in. I got the impression he earnestly cared about making my cycling more comfortable and making me faster. And he did! His recommendations were spot-on and I've already achieved two of my major goals. If you are a younger rider and want to achieve something big, I implore you to put your ego aside and get a fitting with Nate, instead of getting the latest Oakleys or carbon-bling item. I wish I'd done it when younger--coulda been a contender! (haha) read more

If you live in the western united states and need a fit... Nate is your guy !!! 8 Stars ! read more

I was doing research into a getting a fit when i reached out to Nate. He was very fast with responding via email and answering all my questions. He also explained to me everything i would need for the fit and the pricing, etc. When i came in for my Appointment he was very friendly, asking questions about my type of riding/racing i was going to be doing to really dial in the fit. The whole process was enjoyable and its been a few months since the fit. I am extremely satisfied with Nate and his services. I really noticed the differences in the fit during my harder races. I recommend Nate to anyone looking to be more comfortable and efficient on their machine. read more

Totally worth every cent! Nate adjusted my road bike a few years ago and got me riding in perfect ergonomic form. This not only reduced the risk of injury, but it also helped with comfort, power, efficiency, and endurance. After purchasing second bicycle I went back and got another fitting. This time around it took less time and was less expensive because my measurements were already on file. Nate did his magic and once again I cranked away as a happy satisfied customer. read more

Never have I let just anyone touch my bike fit. For approx 10 years just one person has fitted my bikes, tweaked the saddle, etc... I moved and still visited my same guy! With the demands of life, children, school, traveling to get a proper bike fit was really not an easy task. Then I met Nate! Within minutes I felt comfortable and confident I was in good hands. Nate fit my gravel bike with such perfection- you cannot get me off the bike! I was so pleased with this fit, the following week I brought in my new road bike! Once again I walked out a happy customer with a comfy and well fitted bike! Helen's Cycles is blessed to have him work out of their Santa Monica shop! Knowledgeable, smart, and a straight shooter, and honest to boot! I highly recommend Nate for all types of bike fits be it road, gravel, cross, or that Saturday leisure ride with the kids! He is GOOD! I understand he also coaches and I can bet he is amazing! He rides anything with wheels- bike, moto bike, you name it. Thanks again Nate! read more

I bought my road bike for a tri I did 4 years ago and do annually. I would also notice how sore my shoulders and back were after riding and it was recommended that I get fitted. I was a little skeptical especially with some bike shops can seem a little intimidating if you walk in with bike that doesn't cost $$$$. If I knew how helpful and easy Nate would have made this I would have been fitted much earlier. He starts off by having you cycle and he takes measurements looks at all the geometrics and does some fine tuning, he was patient and kind enough to explain what he's doing how it effects your riding. He def loves riding and just wants people to enjoy riding their bikes. Was cool enough to recommend some riding groups to join or areas to ride. After the fitting he wrote down my measurements in case I get a new bike. Absolutely helpful, worth it, and would recommend to anyone who rides! read more

There really isn't much left for me to say that hasn't already been said by the other reviewers. But since I'm so happy with Nate's work, I felt I needed to contribute something here. What stood out about Nate for me was that when he fit me, it didn't seem like he was doing some mundane routine. Instead, he carefully watched my pedal stroke and paid attention to every little adjustment he made. He'll also give you some riding tips as he fits you. You can tell he takes a lot of pride in what he does and this is what sets him apart from the rest. My bike felt like a completely different bike on the first ride after the fitting. I was able to ride longer and faster. Most importantly, no part of my body hurt or went numb (yes guys, this includes the groin) after long rides from then on . WORTH EVERY PENNY! As you become a stronger rider, you can go back to him and he'll make the appropriate adjustments to capitalize on your gains for a small fee. The great thing is that he has all your measurements on file! To top everything off, he's a really cool guy! read more

Just had my new road bike fitted. It's my second road bike and fourth visit (including two cleats adjustment). As always, Nate was super and offered tons of useful information. I've been through serious knee problems. Without Nate's help and advice, I wouldn't be able to ride ~3K miles this yr. Highly recommended. It will be the best money you spend on cycling. read more

Had a great fitting with Nate! All the great reviews are right on the mark - he's a great guy that understands his stuff and is the real deal. I think what I can add to some of these reviews is that he makes sense. Being new to the road bike scene he was able to really communicate what was needed and how things work in a way that I understood and had some great takeaways. Now that I am dialed into my bike it's a crazy better experience! If you are concerned about repetitive stress injuries GO SEE NATE. (He gives a discount if you're doing the Aids Life Cycle). read more

Nate is "The Man"! Millimeters make a difference when you're putting the miles in-Nate know how to set you up. He knows the theory and has a great eye for spotting something that needs even the slightest adjustment. A good bike fit minimizes the chance of an injury (falling off injuries don't count) and maximizes the efficiency with which you ride your bike. It makes you feel better and stronger when you're riding in a correct position. Well worth the money. read more

Yes you can get loads of advice on bike setup and injury prevention from bike mags and the internet but there is no substitute for a personal fitting service to get YOUR bike set up for YOU and address YOUR issues. Nate explained my knee and lower back pain, adjusted the bike and cleats, offered advice on body position and shape and was generally a pleasure to chat with throughout the whole hour long session. First ride today since the fitting and the bike felt great - no pain and a smoother, faster, longer ride than usual. Thanks Nate, I will be back! read more

Nate is a real pro -- knowledgable, competent, and he educates you along the way to explain what he's doing. He shares general information about cycling that's custom-fitted to the customer as much as the bike itself. In my case, he vastly improved the fit of my bike but didn't try to push any new parts, etc. on me since he said I didn't need them. A fitting is not cheap, but it's also reasonable for what you get. Think of it as an investment that will vastly improve your riding experience, help prevent injuries, and make you a happier rider. And in addition to all that, Nate's a nice guy. HIGHLY recommended. read more

My wife got me a fitting as a birthday gift and since it had been four years since my last fitting I thought it was a good idea. Nate was very quick yet precise. I had sent him my Strava records in the event the types of rides I do regularly would affect my fitting. Nate did look but said it was more about fitting my bike to my body and that should make all the difference. It's been a few weeks now and I feel more comfortable on my long strenuous rides. As for performance, I'd ask my friends but they just can't seem to keep up. Lol. Thanks Nate and I highly recommend him for a fitting whether new to the sport or it's been a while since your last. read more

I used to always experience pain in my feet after about 60 miles of riding.It was a burning sensation on the bottom of my foot. I went to Nate Loyal to get custom molded shoe inserts hoping that would help aleviate my pain. This last weekend was the big test, I did the San Luis Obispo Bike Clubs Lighthouse Century 101 miles, with over 6000 feet of climbing and my feet didn't hurt. Those inserts were fantastic and I would recommend them to anyone using cliped pedals that experince foot pain. Also Nate is a really nice guy and seems extremely interested in making the experience enjoyable. read more

Best thing I've done in a long time. Like so many cyclists I wondered if it was worth it. It is. You deserve a great fitting. I've ridden bikes, mostly mountain, for almost 30 years. I started riding a road bike recently and noticed some knee pain. Well... I am 50. So I debated having a bike fit. I chased around on-line for a good bike fitter. Nate's reviews looked promising. I made an appointment, loaded the bike and drove on up. The Real Deal best describes Nate. What I liked most was his passion for the sport. It comes through, he loves cycling. My bike, a fairly recent purchase needed a lot of adjustments, Nate explained them all, and why he did them, in great detail. So, I get my fit done, and go out for a 40 mile easy ride. I'm thinking that the seat is way too high. About ten miles in I stop thinking about the seat, I realize I'm faster, and pedaling stronger... hmm... and my knee doesn't hurt. Hmm... money well spent. I really like what Nate did with the bike, the more I ride, the more I appreciate how much a good bike fit can help. If you're wondering if you should have a bike fit done, the answer is yes. Go see Nate, you'll be glad you did. By the way, I thought Nate did such a great job, I signed up for Yelp just to review his work. read more

I have had several bike fits in Santa Monica, from the most expensive to not so expensive - but I know it's the most important tool. I have also been having unknown right hip pain, which I now believe Nate has resolved with my recent MTB fit. Nate is the Best! I won't post here the other places I have spent more than twice what Nate charges, and his attention to detail is, bar none, the best. For instance, he does not take phone calls and attend to others while working with you. Nate understands his client's time is valuable too. He is kind, patient and has knowledge that is above my head, at times. But, he also shared some simple tools of form and spinning, moving hand position around on long climbs, etc, that has helped me in a few endurance rides. Bottom line: He cares and he takes pride in what he does. This made me feel appreciated as his client and respected. And, of course, my ride is much better. Don't waste you money on pricey (supposed high tech shops) I have paid over 400.00 twice on bike fits, and Nate will be refitting those bikes for me. Okay, I am done, but trust me - I have tried many bike fitters! Please forgive any typos - my email was just hacked! Thank you, Nate!!! see you in Leadville! read more

I completely agree with all the comments above about Nate's skill and ability to fit your bike so well you'll think it's a brand new ride. He's fitted two bikes for me and both were worth the cost and time. Would like to add that he is very newbie friendly. As a middle aged slightly chunky Team in Training alumna I've met some really snooty folks in the cycling community. I'm very pleased to say Nate is not one of them. His attitude is a wonderful as his abilities read more

I had my road bike fitted today with Nate and It was worth every penny. Highly recommended even if you are new to riding or looking into getting a bike. Not only is Nate one of the best but he is genuinely a nice guy and is excited to help you. read more

Nate does a superior job, not only is he professional and nice, he also genuinely cares for his clients and wants them to ride with more power and comfort. Not to mention, he's a hottie. He also coaches lots of athletes, both pro cyclist and amateur. Nate has been doing this for over 10 years, and it shows. read more