The shop has a great collection of various items. It checks a lot of smart business boxes which I notice as a manager of a large company. They have legit, herbs, oils, and great prices on doves blood and dragons blood ink. The shop can support your magic endeavors. They also have candles in various colors, including the rainbow shaped like genitalia and other things that amuse the tourists. The shop is near downtown on a side road. There's no sign, so use your mileage indicator or just call them for help getting there. It's also not super clear if there's a right or wrong place to park. You just go up the drive until it ends, and Park is the answer. read more

This is the best selection of oils, incense and herbs. One stop shop for all things hoodoo

Visiting Lucky Mojo as a somewhat clueless +1 can be a fun and diverting experience. And that's even after finding the hidden entrance to the driveway! While your partner spends quality time inside the shop with the knowledgeable staff regarding magical, mystical, and downright mysterious purchases, you are free to explore the heavily wooded, lushly landscaped grounds. The model train display, expertly integrated into the redwood and fern environment, is an obvious place to start. Honestly, you could spend the whole time here admiring the craftsmanship and many intricate details. But the wooden barn with the Lucky Mojo-mobile is equally intriguing. How often do you see Jesus, Zeus, and a black-hatted witch/sorceress altogether in one place? Not in the Vatican, I'll tell you that much. It's pretty fascinating, and well worth your time to explore. No visit to Lucky Mojo would be complete, however, without at least one cat sighting, one orb spider web discovery, and one (or more) visits to the walking labyrinth, which is easy to find if you follow the helpful signs. It will calm your nerves, slow you down, and afford you time to reflect on your next moves. Maybe a wine tasting on River Road afterward? Or a stop at Wild Flour Bread? Maybe a long drive to the coast for some Pacific Ocean energy, or a camp ground where you can light a candle and cast a protective spell or two before the light of a full moon. Of course, you don't have to wait outside, as interesting as the property is especially to first-time guests. You can come inside, too, and explore. You never know what you will find! Note: you may wish to park on Covey Road rather than risk the narrow gravel driveway, especially if you are coming in a large vehicle. It's easy to walk from there! read more

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There is no place in the world like this place. It was originally created to preserve the history of the craft using the genuine formulas. Everything here is the most authentic that can be found. Everything is made by hand with individual attention. It's tediously done but it's all done the way it should be. The owner is also a walking encyclopedia of knowledge and lore. This is as place that can't be missed if you are interested in magick or folklore. read more

Anything and everything that calls to you it will here. Lucky Mojo is a very unique store filled with various mystic adornments and beautiful things from all different types of cultures. There's just so much to see, I can spend hours looking and learning about it all. I've gotten gorgeous candles, a spell book, reading cards, a crystal wand, and other special gifts I've found unique for friends and family. Everyone can use some sage nowadays! The shop isn't all though, it's a really beautiful place to roam around outside. The maze is so neat as well as the tiny railroad town they've made. Not so often do you come across shops like this. There's nothing like it around! read more

I can write an entire book about why this place is the pinnacle of badassary but ill try to keep it breif. If you practice, Vodun, Hinduism, Palo, or any other *in Mermaid Man voice* EEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL religion and want GENUINE hoodoo supplies that are the yard stick to measure other supplies by Lucky mojo is that place, they cater to all faiths and will have just what you need as well they are non-judgmental and also will lead you to genuine readers/rootworkers from AIRR or others that work in forms that are many times taboo such as cursing. All the employees are so kind welcoming and down to earth. You may have to wait a bit on the shipping but it is well worth it. read more

I was introduced to LuckyMojo for a very special metaphysical healer in Maryanne. Since they are in California and I live in SoCal, I figured I drive there on a whim for a weekend getaway filled with hoodoo and Room services. LOVED every minute of it! The staff isn't extremely helpful, but that okay. I knew what I went there for. Filled my tray with $170 of root, herbs and floor washes! A trip to lucky mojo, was just what the doctor ordered. read more

This place is fantastic. So much to look at. Many of their items I'd never hear of before. Amazing selection of oils. Everyone was friendly and when I asked when a specific oil might be back in stock, they were able to make some for me while I waited. I am enjoying my goodies and will be back soon. The place is a little tricky to find and parking next to the store is tight and it stacks - meaning you won't be able to leave until he cars behind you do. I parked down a block on a side street and will do that next time I visit. I'm so glad I realized this was in driving distance and that I made the trip. read more

Cool little occult shop near Santa Rosa, that supplies you with everything you need to for your hoodoo rituals and more. The herbs are authentic (and many were grown in their garden), and oils, candles & mojobags, etc. are made following traditional formularies, rather than using substitutions or shortcuts that many modern day spiritual supply companies have resorted to. The shop is fascinating, usually well-stocked and filled to the brim with things to browse. It has a funky, cozy apothecary-like atmosphere--a candystore for people who especially love old-style magic shops. The staff is friendly and helpful, so the place does not feel creepy in any way. The owner, however, can be somewhat of a curmudgeon, but definitely passionate about her interests. The owner, Cat Yronwode is considered to be an expert on African American rootwork, hoodoo (not voodoo), old-style conjure and the use of herbs in folk magic. With this shop, the books she has published, and also her impressive online presence, her mission is to share her wealth of knowledge and keep some of these folk traditions known and alive. Since Cat also has a background in graphic design and comic books, all her supplies have graphic labels that are designed in-house. Some funky, some vintage-looking. Some things make unique gifts. Prices are on the pricey end. Everything is sold with a disclaimer that it's for curio purpose only. Some of the items (herbs) are very skimpy in quantity and overpriced. Most can be purchased from bulk herb shops at a more reasonable price. Other items also carry a higher mark-up. The shop is located on her residential property and can be a little hard to find. The small, free-standing building is at the end of a path through her overgrown garden and buried beneath more foliage. Parking is limited to about 3-4 cars, since you're parking on her property. For more info, they have a website (easily searched on google) that has extensive information on the subject, an online catalogue, pictures of the shop and directions. read more

Lucky Mojo Curio - Herbs & Spices Near Me - Forestville, California

terrible customer service, I called Lucky mojo, unlucky for me to ask about some supplies I needed for something I was working on and dared to ask for advice from them based on their experience and I was treated with their worse attitude with them just tossing away anything I had to say, this place is not necessarily close to me so I wanted to get some information before I actually drove to the place, I am glad I made that call because after the conversation I had with them I realized I had a much closer place with amazing customer service at the Haight read more

I can't post a review for the items because the order was cancelled 11/26/16 but I can post a review regarding customer service. I ordered items totaling about $50.00. Basically made an order for items on Thanksgiving Day and received an email Saturday night about my Lucky MoJo order. The email stated that my debit card was declined because the address was incorrect. Now knowing me I try to be very careful imputing information and I know the address is accurate I order online a lot yes I understand mistakes happen. Moving on the customer service representative was really arrogant and high strung during the call. When your customer is confused and disappointed don't take it personal. I stated it twice "I just don't understand the issue with the address I'm confused." The customer service representative says " If you stop talking and let me explain it to you you'll understand why and you'll have to call your bank." Then the comment "I'm not accusing you of committing fraud the address is wrong." Why would you even make a comment like that when I said nothing about being accused of fraud. To shorten the story I called the bank they repeated the address and it sounds accurate. I called Lucky MoJo again and told them I no longer want the items I tried to purchase from you and would like a refund processed. I wanted a refund because ( attitude was unnecessary, my intuition told me my new card will decline again, and it may take 3-4weeks to get my items). Last night provided the fax number to send the cancelation form to the bank and said Thank you politely! As soon as we got off the phone I didn't hear and apology nor a have a great night. It left a bad taste in my mouth that's sad. I will definitely buy from my local botanica Original Products Botanica which in fact I had an issue with an online order ( not address related) they handled my situation with compassion, respect, and speed. Now let's see how long this refund takes to process. Update: Received my refund within 7 days. The rules state if you don't call them back to inquire about a declined card within 3 days they will cancel the order. Uh huh!!! No Lucky Mojo never sent a fax I had to hassel the bank to do stay behind the situation. Urgency means nothing!!! I asked Nicole if she could fax what they asked for. She said yes by that afternoon PST she would send the documents proving they won't release the funds. She never did!!! If you keep calling and ask them to do something it won't happen. Basically wait for your bank to cancel the charge. read more

This is a tough review for me because they have some very dedicated people working there but the service is atrocious! I have to agree with LJ in the reviews too, buyer beware, do your research first. There are hundreds upon hundreds of very scary complaints online, too many and too dangerous to ignore such as assisted suicides and public death threats. This is just one site on Google I found to be very helpful in investigating and exposing them http://www.spsreviewforum.com/ They can be quite rude and act high and mighty when you want to know if and when you have an appointment, an order is in stock or been shipped. If you complain it gets worse! Since they self-govern it's very difficult to get anywhere so you must document everything. For all their hard work especially cat's research (she uses lower case for her name) I would like to see things change for the better. For starters, let people speak freely on the forums. Stop berating customers and degrading them. Stop censoring. I received notice that I was not allowed to mention a competitor even though I had only said I went to the local botanica to get my supplies without mentioning a store name. With permission, I then eliminated that sentence and still was blocked and almost banned from the site. I was told I'm not allowed to complain there. The emails are there to see so it's clear that I had permission and then to deny that is just crazy. Secondly, let customers know if you are out of stock and we have to wait for backorders rather than take our money. It's likely time is of the essence and we need our supplies now rather than later. Six to eight weeks is too long. The supplies we order become useless as time goes on. Update: I had said the information was well researched and accurate and I have to question that now that I see the nasty comments on their site of other people who I know to be very genuine, honest and authentic. read more

Lucky Mojo is NOT CLOSED! One of the most magical places you'll find, Lucky Mojo is a leader in the spiritual and hoodoo community and they are still going strong. So many unique products made in-house and a super knowledgeable staff! read more

Neat little place. They have a very, very large selection of oils and herbs. These don't interest me, but the variety is staggering. The little tokens and knickknacks that they sell are pretty interesting. I have a feeling that the counter staff don't know what they're doing, though. Some guy asked the cashier about the usage of "Master Key oil." She flailed around for a few seconds, and asked the other cashier. The other cashier said, "Uh, luck. And power." Wow, is that the best story you could come up with? read more

Lucky Mojo Curio - "Gardener" described these as blackberries, so I made a pie. It tastes like... burning. - Herbs & Spices Near Me - Forestville, California

I made the trek out to this shop one day because I had been to the website and realized I lived fairly close so it would be a nice day trip. Forestville is a tiny town, and I actually drove past the entrance to this store four times! Since it is next to the owner's house there is no sign out front; just the address which is hard to see. When I finally found the address, I drove down a narrow driveway through tall trees, hoping I was going to the right place. Upon seeing the building, I still wasn't sure, but an old man sitting on a bench beckoned me forward. I parked pretty much where I was since there are no parking spaces. As I said, it's just a narrow driveway! The old man showed me where the path to the shop was, and I began wandering through the overgrown brush towards the building, wondering what I was getting myself into. As I entered the shop, my eyes began to adjust to the darkness within, and I felt something wet and furry on my leg. I was shocked at first, but was relieved when I saw it was a big, friendly dog. The ladies working yelled out a cheerful hello to me and told me to ask if I had any questions. I began browsing and was amazed at the many wonderful oils, incenses, and powders they had available. They didn't have any High John the Conqueror Oil on the shelf, but they gladly mixed some up for me. I ended up spending over $100 there, and let me tell you, these are the real thing! The energy put into each product is definitely there, and there are chunks of herbs and stuff floating in each bottle. I have had more success in using Lucky Mojo products than with any other brand. Yes, it's your intent that is important, but these products get you there much faster. I highly recommend these products for anyone who practices witchcraft or hoodoo. You can mail order them, but it's so much more fun to visit the shop in Forestville. read more

I ordered online from them two or three times. I've had to email several times for the first couple of orders to see if my candles were shipped yet. Then to show the attitude the owner has, the owner pops up one of her political opinions on Facebook tonight and when I offered my own opinion, she then insults me. I defended myself and she thought I was shoving words in her mouth. So much for thinking of the common good while you censure a customer, delete their comments and block them. Gee I feel so valued as a customer and a person with different views. I will never buy from your arrogant self again:) read more

I have been shopping at Lucky Mojo since I moved to Sonoma County in 2006, I had seen it online while I was living in AZ and had told myself I would check it out if I ever made it out there again. My first suggestion to going here would be park on the st and walk up to it. Unless you are super comfortable with your backing up abilities. This store has a huge selection of charms, herbs, divination supplies, different kinds of candles and interesting hard to find books. The staff is very knowledgeable, and I would also suggest asking questions cause the store is well stocked it can be a little overwhelming! Check out their website! read more

This is my place. You must go. It is hard to find, but just follow your nose and you'll get there, and be glad you did. Also- Cat is the best palm/tarot reader you'll ever find. Her rates are Incredibly reasonable for the quality... she is the seer of seers. Just make an appointment for her beforehand, and she will take you into one of the smallest churches in the world (literally), and you will get all of the answers you seek, and her blessed company all at once. She is the celebrity of hoodoo, and well deserving. It is all a little rough around the edges- but that is part of the charm- so just enjoy and be thankful for how lucky you are to have found this place. read more

I loved loved loved this shop/location! Downside is there's no parking but it's also the upside because the energy at the shop doesn't get disturbed. I went there before closing so didn't have much time to browse around but the lady at the shop was really nice and guided me in the direction I needed. Now that I'm back on the East coast I ordered a few oils online and hoping that it'll arrive soon. read more

I want to mention TO ALL OUT THERE!! that CAT AND HER HUSBAND are doing the best job I have ever seen on the web with the kind of stuff they sell and offer and EVERYTHING is real! no substitutes what you order is what you get. You can always trust the products and ingredients and you can be sure your getting the real deal for all your needs whatever they may be so you will have spells that are SURE TO WORK!! you can't expect an outcome with false ingredients and you will find here that everything is as they say it is. I recommend all their products, services, classes, articles. They have stuff that the regular person could not get a hold of! I will never shop or look anywhere else for all my needs such as this. Customer whom is very happy!!!...Lori read more

This seems more like a mailorder house than anything else. They all but ignore you if you go in person, unless you go out of your way to catch their attention. They have no print catalog there, so if you don't know what you want already, you can't find it there. The shelves are so dark, that it's hard to even see the contents in the bowls of all the cute little trinkets. I did find it a good place to buy incense. I've had a reading or two there years ago, & they weren't really right on either. This hidden shop really is quite a curiosity. I guess I'm just not a hoodoo voodoo chile. I did try to look at their ridiculous, voluminous catalog online, which is a joke. Almost all images said no photo available. So what good is it? P.S: I park in the church parking lot a block away, which is always empty, except for Sundays. read more

This is one of my favorite places to visit when I am in Forestville! The store has the coolest ambience and a great selection of incense, books and curios. The people who work there are super nice and a lot of the items are hand made! I have also ordered online from them as well with great success! If you are in the area they are definitely worth a visit! read more

The shop is polite, quick, and efficient, and the products are outstanding. Since I don't live close enough to shop in person, all my interaction with them has been over the phone and online. Everyone I've talked to have been delightful, even when I called to ask if my package had shipped yet. This is a very small shop that custom-makes their oils, bath crystals, sachet powders and some of the candles, so it does take a little longer for packages to be shipped, but the quality of the product is well worth the wait. read more

I've always been that loser that bought things from them, heck I was even following them for a bit on facebook. I've purchased candles from them and it's been a mixed bag. I've had candles come like that and some that came weeks later. I've also seen friends yelled at by them and that's left a dirty taste in my mouth. They've never talked crap to me but as a result, I could go the shops by my house or go online and find candles cheaper and people more willing to help. This is an ok place but it's better to go to your local shop and help out the neighborhood. read more

My Myrrh oil contained no Myrrh. Used to like this company. Professional worker, and in the past have stocked my entire altar with their products and sold them to my own clients. They have always watered them down with lots of Almond oil or Jojoba oil - but an entire bottle of JUST Almond oil or Jojoba oil? C'mon. Contacted them and was told a replacement bottle had been sent out, but no such bottle ever arrived. Contacted them again, this time no response. They done me dirty. read more

This place is one of a kind. The location, the landscape, the people and the energy just make this place fantastic. Whether you believe in metaphysics or not-- this is a place to see and experience. There is so much stuff in the realm of spirituality here to learn and hear about. Even though I had thought I was a veteran of the metaphysical arts-- I walked in to Lucky Mojo and realized I had just been schooled. This place is chock full of everything and anything you'd ever want to ask or know about. Anything you could consider buying-- they have, or can get for you. They also do a lot of custom work-- you just have to ask. Their on-line catalogue as well as website is loaded full with information, history and even message boards. They can even mail you items, or set candles for you at their location. Every staff member there is passionate, understanding and knowledgeable. Did I mention the good energy that exudes from this place? From the moment you step out on to the driveway, you can feel it. You feel like you can walk in and out of the place-- and accomplish something. Personally, I have only bought candles that are dressed and prayed over. I have bought a candle/prayer to help my grandparents get through their health issues, as well as bought a candle to support my sister during a stressful, life changing event. So far so good-- all things have turned out better than originally thought, if not amazingly smoothly. Definitely worth a visit-- even if its just to see their incredibly small church. My family and I drove up today to get a blessing candle made-- and to have my parents-in-law see the church where we placed a candle that helped our grandparents. Its safe to say I think everyone felt good getting to experience that today. As for some factual, helpful advice: 1. The place is HIDDEN. Look for the address number and a hidden driveway surrounded by overgrowth. 2. there is maybe 3 places to park on the driveway. Its kind of a crap shoot whether or not it'll be busy when you try to park. If not, park down the road elsewhere and walk up. 3. The shop is small, and well stocked. Just be careful when you walk around since there are a lot of small items on shelves. :] 4. The church on the grounds is for various one-on-one readings by a staff member. If you purchase a candle that is dressed and prayed over-- a staff member will walk you out to the alters and church to help you pick out the proper spot. I'd recommend not touching or moving anyone else's candles. 5. Lucky Mojo is open every day 9am-5pm. 6. Ask questions!!! Everyone there is ready to help. This place is the real deal, no question is too silly or strange. These people know what they're doing. read more

Still NO luck on getting my products.. I called last Friday and they told me that the powders are still not done.. The week before they told me it would go out to shipping the next week. Such a run a round ... why am I having to deal with this and why do I get the feeling like it is all my fault for even bothering them with an order.. I paid $57 to them over 6 weeks ago and have not received one item yet in the mail. Do no order online- the services are not there. I am worried that I have been ripped off totally and will have to spend my 2 cents somewhere else. After reading bad reviews and other complaints about things that are totally unacceptable; I am not sure how this company is still in business. I will be filing a credit complaint with my card company if I do not get a package in 1 week. Then I will be filing a fraud alert with the Attorney Generals office in CA as well as my state TX to ask for this company to be investigated for fraud. Messed with the wrong witch. :( I am totally disappointed in these people. read more

Put in an online order for no contact curbside pickup, as the store itself is not currently open due to covid. I followed all the instructions on their website on how to place the order, which claimed that they would call me when it was ready to come pick up. Hours passed and I heard nothing from them and they were getting ready to close soon, so I called to inquire about my order. The girl on the phone was pretty rude and kept insisting that she had already spoken to me on the phone earlier in the day, before I had even had a chance to give her my name or any information as to who was calling or what was in my order (we had not spoken before this, I had no contact with any employee until I called them), then told me it was my fault the order was delayed because I was supposed to call them as soon as I placed the order so they would know to fulfill it. Their instructions on their website on how to place an order for curbside pickup did not say that I needed to do this, so I'm not sure how they expected me to know. I was told my order would be ready the next day. The next day came and I still did not receive a call after over 2 hours had passed since they'd opened, so I called again. I was told they were preparing my order and it would be ready in 20 minutes. About 5 minutes later I got another call from them saying what I had ordered was out of stock and had been for weeks, so I was not going to receive it. I'm not sure why it took so long for them to figure that out and let me know, or why it was even still listed as for sale on their website when they knew they didn't have it. Horrible customer service and a big hassle only to end up disappointed in the end, will not be going back and would not recommend to anybody. read more

i Think I should have looked first here. And unfortunately i have to aggree with the negative here. Online order 3 weeks and no response. I did not order anything that needed special care or preparation. A couple herbs ect. What bothers me is the ignorance and nonchalance taking customers for granted, I get it when an order is so unique that it takes time. But then state this on your website clearly. I just asked for a refund and we will see how that plays out. Reading some of the comments make me squirm. death threats? Copying is NEVER an option. but threats gets you rendezvous with the LAW. I studied enough law so i should know. Ultimately i would like to see people succeed. On both sides . read more

I don't know what these other people are talking about! I have been shopping with Lucky Mojo for many years and the customer service and products have always been excellent. I have also gotten great advise and recommendations over the phone. The site is easy to use and offers an outstanding selection of products. read more

Great selection of merchandise, however, the horrible customer service makes you forget that they have a great selection. It takes far too long to receive your order and when you make a polite inquiry they respond in a rude manner. If I pay you for goods or services and I don't receive them in a timely manner is it my right to inquire and your responsibility as the vendor to provide a professional and courteous response. Unless you have the ability to walk into their store and make an in person purchase, don't shop at this place. This is the 21st Century - if you run a shop that sells merchandise over the internet, people expect timely delivery and courteous replies to their inquiries. I'll stick to Sonny Boy and Original Products - friendly people who ship merchandise quickly and don't treat their customers as though they are an inconvenience. read more

What a joke. First of all, the real estate kit did not include everything it was supposed to, I bought the $22 kit and got the $9 kit with a broken candle. Secondly my St. Joseph candle was shattered, I'm sure it was shattered before it was shipped or else all of the glass would have been in the box (it wasn't) and third, the candle "dressing" is sparkles. Yep little gold stars that you can get at the dollar store. Oh and then there's the fact that I kept calling them and they kept giving me the run around until I threatened to place a fraud investigation with my credit card. Absolute and complete garbage. I'm sure Cat is laughing all the way to the bank. read more

Don't bother buying from these phonies. They are very unprofessional folks. We placed a large order early this month,and it still has not shipped. We called several times,and was told "the powders are still in the lab" I asked why they don't have information on their site,saying "It takes 2 weeks or whatever to make these things--or allow 4-8 weeks to ship?" There was no answer-- so I won't be ordering from them again.They sure took our money quick enough... read more

What a great place!!! The people are so nice and the facility has everything you can imagine for hoodoo work. Love it, love Mrs. Cat. Thank you read more

Lucky Mojo has a little something for everyone. It's tucked away in a peaceful location in Forestville, Ca. Great, knowledgeable staff. It is the go to/one stop shop for all of your metaphysical needs. read more

I visited this place for my birthday last year and hope to do so again this year. I don't drive so am dependent on others. It's not the easiest place to get to, but once there, it's definitely worth it. There's actually so much that it's a bit overwhelming. Incenses, oils, candles, little knick knacks, recipe books - just to name a few. I particularly like their Egyptian motifs, and got an incense burner (form of Egyptian black cat), and holder for pens (decorated with scarabs). I selected some oils, and some small interesting items to put here and there. Their jewelry is also fun and quite lovely and I was able to add to my scarab and evil eye collection with some bracelets, and also acquired a pair of crystal earrings. They even have replicas of Roman Catholic saints! Truly something for everyone, and a real treat for witches! I hope to come back and visit again soon. read more

I have been a customer at LM for a while now. I do all of ordering on line, and have to say the quality of their products are amazing. The folks I have talked to on the phone are very professional and knowledgable. Love this place and love the LMC radio archive on my podcast. read more

This place has pretty much everything you can think of, and more! The front garden is precious, and the entire property carries a blessed/gentle aura. Thank you Bailey (sp?) and the entire staff for your gracious assistance! read more

This is my place. This is where I got to buy all of my supplies - both online and in person. The staff has always been very helpful and accommodating. There is so much going on in their shop- you have to visit. It is definitely a unique and spiritual experience. Their prices are the best I have found so far as well. Their oils are well made, all of their products are top quality. Get a candle blessed or get the guidance and tools to do it yourself! read more

I placed an order with them on the internet and received email confirmation. However, after waiting more than 3 weeks, I received nothing, so I called them. Finding my order number on the computer, she said "Oh.... it's probably in the shipping department, I'll go check." Then she hung up on me. After calling again, this person..and I couldn't tell if it was the same person or someone else... again went to check. "Oh it's in our shipping department. We'll send it out to you." she said, as if she was doing me a favor. What in God's name it was still doing in their shipping department more than 3 weeks after I paid for it is anybody's guess. They certainly take your money promptly enough. I have yet to see if I will receive my order at all. As of this writing, I have not. If you value your time and sanity it would probably be better to go elsewhere to order this kind of stuff. I would not recommend that you order anything from them over the internet as they certainly don't seem to be interested in running any kind of efficient mail order operation. Obviously these people will send you your order when they feel like it, not when you pay for it, and that's not how I want to do any kind of business. read more