i purchased patio doors from Pella in 2017. In 2021 my door would not close properly. The door was coming apart at the bottom. The person who came out to look at it said all three doors (2 fixed, 1 operational) had to be replaced. The doors were covered under warranty so I only had to pay for installation (approximately $800) The said it would take about 6 weeks for the new doors to come in. Fast forward 5 months and the doors are finally in. The day before they were to be installed, Pella called and said someone quit and they wouldn't be able to install for 2 more months before they could install them. I told them that was not acceptable because I was putting the house on the market. The service manager was rude and started yelling. I kept calling until I got someone in a different department who got me an installation date two weeks later. When the installers came, they only had the one operational door. I told them what the other person said and they said he was wrong. They took everything apart, door, trim etc and got the frame lined up. They went to get the new door from the truck and it's the wrong door. I told them that I could not wait for a new door because I was selling. They did fix the shutting issue. I called numerous times from October until February about a refund. I was either told they would speak to management and get back to me or if I left a voicemail I would not get a call back. Finally in February I called corporate because I was having no luck with this branch. They said they would have a manager call me. We'll of course, no call so I called the 800 # and they said my account showed a refund was in process. the person wanted to speak to her manager and call me back. When I got a call back they said we have your installation scheduled for April 24. I told them that can't happen because I don't own the house anymore. I just want a refund, the service manager (the same one that was so rude before) told me I would not be getting a refund. She said they have had the door and they were calling me but I never responded. I told them this was not true. She said oh we had the wrong number in the system. I said that's funny because you called me the day before my original installation to cancel. i have asked to speak to this person's manager but they will not return my phone calls. UPDATE: After posting this review and filling a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, I received my refund. I spoke with the General Manager who was very nice. Unfortunately, his employee (or previous employee) never passed along my request to speak with him. After listening to my whole story he refunded my money within a week. I can now honestly say I would recommend this company. read more

Contracted 2 doors May 5 - one slider ($8k) and one entrance door (3K) at garage for $11,000 and change. Decided to go with Pella instead of some cheaper replacement doors at some big box store, assuming I would receive superior quality product and installation. (I also got a quote from builder, that I decided against, after estimate request turned into a high-pressure sales pitch. I also contemplated getting a quote for a much less expensive door from a big box store, and install it myself, for the garage entrance door since it is almost never used but decided I did not want another "crappy" contractor-grade door. And, I did not feel like installing another door in my lifetime!) June 11 Slider came with incorrect latch/lock receiver so cannot latch or lock the door at jamb. Plastic trim is loose and won't stay in place. I was told replacement and correct parts ordered same day and should arrive in 2 weeks or so and be installed in return trip. OK, can live with that: see update below). Entrance door was installed June 11with large scratch that was "touched up" during installation but I was not told about scratch or "repair" during the installation and given the opportunity to refuse the product. For 3K I should have been told about this and not discover it after the installation. For 3K the product should be flawless and not have a compromised finish. [[HIGHLIGHT]]I called salesman and messaged him pictures and he agreed door needs to be replaced. He advised that he will forward pix to others at Pella and they will contact me[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]]. I have since called him and he advised that it's being "reviewed". I still have no word a week later. I expected much better from Pella. Update: Just been told no parts were ordered for the slider after all and no action has been taken on the garage entrance door. Very dissapointed. Will update again. [[HIGHLIGHT]]Update. Received confirmation that parts ordered, replacement door ordered and tentative reinstall date scheduled. Internal communication at Pella is poor and the source of the problems.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Product quality remains impressive. UPDATE July 11: Garage entrance door replaced with new. But also scratched in shipping. But better than original. Installer and I decided to accept and ask for discount. Installer pointed out original installation missing screws at hinges. Replacement latch and strike for slider door does not fit door. New plastic trim as before; pops out. So no progress. [[HIGHLIGHT]]I am supposed to receive call for arranging yet another meeting "in a week or so" on site with Pella manager and installation coordinator to remedy.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Per telcon today if the have to replace slider I will be requesting 100% refund for slider and will replace with another manufacturer. read more

If I could do it over again, I would choose any other window company. [[HIGHLIGHT]]The front desk person, Jeff, handled my $34k transaction. He's not a salesperson, and as you can imagine, there were numerous issues throughout the process.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] [[HIGHLIGHT]]I was never connected with a real salesperson to help me.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Jeff ordered a door in the wrong orientation and I went to Pella showroom to try to fix it. [[HIGHLIGHT]]Jeff argued with me as soon as I walked in the door and I was connect with Drew, a real salesperson, who has yet to respond to my contractor about fixing the issue, even after saying he would reach out to him multiple times this week.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] [[HIGHLIGHT]]If you set expectation with someone, you should follow through, even if it's to give them a quick update that you need more time.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] [[HIGHLIGHT]]Drew told me it would take 5 days for parts to come in. The manager told me it would take 3 weeks.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Whenever these parts come in, I will have to pay for additional workers to come back to my house to pop the door back out of the frame while Pella fixes it. I am losing money because of this company's incompetence. It's been an insanely terrible experience. read more

We ordered and had installed several doors from Pella. The quality of the doors were fantastic and the installation went very smoothly. It's exciting to have friends and family over and have them comment on how nice the doors look. Highly recommended. read more

Pella Windows and Doors Showroom of Richmond, VA - Signet craftsman door - Windows Installation Near Me - Richmond, Virginia

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Working with Joshua at Pella was a joy from start to finish. The installers were on time, cleaned up after themselves, and the results are fantastic. We changed to all black windows and love the results. Highly recommended. read more

Pella Windows and Doors Showroom of Richmond, VA - Windows Installation Near Me - Richmond, Virginia

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[[HIGHLIGHT]]Had a great experience with the sales person.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] The installers did a great job. Treated my house well and cleaned up after themselves. Call Pella if you need windows and doors read more

Pella Windows and Doors Showroom of Richmond, VA - Door - Windows Installation Near Me - Richmond, Virginia

Our sliding glass door lost its seal and became foggy. We contacted Pella, who took a long time to get us correct pricing on the options (replace just the sliding door, or both the door and fixed glass panel, or replace the entire unit). Finally we decided to replace only the door - and was shocked to learn the cost was over $2000. But our shock and disappointment was only beginning. In mid-July, we sent the payment and ordered the door, at which time we were again troubled by the lead time on ordering the door - over two months! [[HIGHLIGHT]]They made an appt for Sept 22 (this morning) - and we were in contact with Pella via email, text, and phone call over the past few days confirming that the technician would arrive between 10:30 and noon this morning.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] [[HIGHLIGHT]]Shortly before the tech was supposed to arrive today, we received another email, saying the installation was scheduled for Oct 15, a direct contradiction with Friday's email.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] We contacted Pella, who said it had to be rescheduled because the "parts" hadn't arrived yet. [[HIGHLIGHT]]After waiting two months, they failed to notify us of the reschedule date until the morning of the planned installation.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] [[HIGHLIGHT]]We find that totally unsatisfactory - we arranged our schedule to be able to accommodate Pella, and they waited until the final hours to make us aware of the reschedule date.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] We find Pella to be a disorganized, unreliable, over-priced company, and greatly regret ever doing business with them. Giving them one star is a gift, I would give them zero stars if I could. read more

Buyer Beware. Horrible company, arrogant non professional staff. I purchased my house in 2021. The builder (EDC) or Pella installed mismatched windows in the back of my house. 3 YEARS LATER!!!!!!!!!! I received a call from Pella saying they want to correct the window. I was surprised to get the call after 3 YEARS!!! they do things at their convenience - after they get your money. [[HIGHLIGHT]]The tech showed up at my house at 8AM. The Pella dispatcher said 9AM - 11AM, not 8AM. I wasn't ready at 8AM but I tried to make it happen.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] I have a job too and my work starts at 8AM, home office. 9AM - 11AM like that dispatcher said would have been better. I delayed my work to answer the door. Very arrogant. non-professional service tech. Kept asking how I was doing and insisting on shaking hands. I asked him what he was doing (meaning replacing the window) and how long it would take? He seemed ok with that and I walked him to the window so he could get started, and again he started asking how I was doing and insisting I shake his hand (you must shake his hand). Save the handshake till after the work is done. I didn't shake the tech's hand and I guess he took offense. He dropped a lot of "F" bombs at me and left. [[HIGHLIGHT]]I notified the company, they refuse to send anyone else and gave my window to the builder.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] that's Pella! Instead of management sending someone else to replace the window (they called me about), they do this. Bad business. [[HIGHLIGHT]]Pella management/staff are not customer friendly - they are the customer and your providing the service.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Based on the Pella website, the company looks like a nice reputable company. It's not. Buyer Beware. In hindsight, I'm happy that tech did not replace the window. I work in service and the customer is always right. the key to any successful business is a happy customer!!! The old respectful ways are fading away. Had Pella sent a competent, professional second tech to right this wrong or at least try with a second attempt to remedy this, I would not be posting this. Buyer Beware. Ridiculous this is how it turned out. SAVE YOUR $$$$$ This is my experience with Pella. Thanks for reading! [[HIGHLIGHT]]UPDATE on the comment: "Hi Matt, we're sorry to hear you're experiencing this. We'd be happy to look into this & see if we can help. Please send your name, contact info & order number to socialmedia@pella.com. Thank you. -AH". It's been several days, I have not heard back from PELLA.[[ENDHIGHLIGHT]] Buyer Beware! read more

Pella Windows and Doors Showroom of Richmond, VA - mismatched window - Windows Installation Near Me - Richmond, Virginia

had a sliding glass door and screen door installed summer of 2024. February 2025 the handle broke. submitted a request for service two weeks ago and I keep getting the run-a-round. next stop i will be filing a complaint with the board of contractors and the bbb. read more

Before relocating to Richmond, I only bought Pella window or doors. The quality was strong and there were a ton of options. However my Richmond experience with Pella has been quite the opposite. A front door repair took over two years to get ultimately resolved, as the first replacement component came unpainted, then it peeled, then it had to be replaced and painted again. All in all, Pella technicians came over six times, with most of those visits just an acknowledgment that the part was still not painted and they had to leave. Lastly, my two simple double hung windows took 7 months to come in and be delivered from when they were ordered. It is sad to see a brand that I liked take such a negative turn but there are plenty of other options now with much better customer service. read more

Dishonest. Sold a product that cannot be installed properly and still have not come back to resolve it. Very unresponsive management. Blatant lies. Door installed completely incorrectly. One of many issues, they left gaps in one side of door because they didn't put proper insulation. read more

Pella Richmond delivered my french door/storm door combination a couple of months after initial start date. The French Doors are as promised, but the storm door is flimsy and rattles with the slightest or wind. The locking holes appear to be too large. I was told that this was normal and how they were delivered and that the showroom door was just as loose. An unacceptable response for a $10,000 item. I have requested a replacement after being told that there was nothing that could be done.Then I was told that it would be covered by warranty once I paid the COD of approximately $2500.( Again after I was told that nothing could be done. I am disappointed with the response so far and hope to avoid filing suit in small claims court over the failure to correctly install my unit read more

Product and installation is top notch. Highly recommend! The selection was easy and tailored to my needs. The process was seamless.

We considered Pella because they have the most choices for product selection. We personally loved the Impervia which is their fiberglass window and can come in black on both sides. Pella also installed the product and did a great job. We love our new windows! read more

Pella Windows and Doors Showroom of Richmond, VA - Windows Installation Near Me - Richmond, Virginia

UPDATE: Thanks to posting on my neighborhood FB page, this was resolved yesterday. I would like to thank Morgan Kelley for his responsiveness and understanding of the communication difficulties. read more

I've used Pella twice now in 2020 and 2021. Each circumstance requires me having to take multiple days off because installers didn't have everything they need first time around (I.e., window trim). On second occasion, measurements taken to replace window were measured incorrectly on two separate circumstances resulting in installers bringing window too small. This led to them having to order a replacement window in midst of supply shortage. - Dissatisfied customer read more

Review submitted to document failure of Pella Richmond to provide any certificate of completion for work, despite my latest request. Corporate Pella that you see on this page - does not actually follow up. I've opted out of arbitration. Buyer beware - do not use Pella, and certainly avoid Pella Richmond. These reviews are accurate - Facebook and Google appear to use national ratings. You aren't getting national install teams - you are getting this install team. They appear to be a bunch of crooks. read more

so, a response from Pella....they will have someone reach out to me...which has not happened...but they did send out a crew today to "repair" the damage to the inside sills and trim on the windows.....they gave them about 2 cups total of paint that they poured into little cups for 29 windows that were installed...... and of course the paint does not match..... this contracted painter is not happy that the job will not be a good job becasue of the small amount of paint and that it does not match. He is concerned that he wants the customers he works for to be happy....Pella, on the other hand seems not to give one rats ass on our customer satisfaction....so again I say DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH PELLA OF RICHMOND because they are the worst ever. read more

Do not stand behind their products and offer no service for issues with their doors. We have a entrance door that Pella installed a few years ago. The little piece of aluminum (white) trim on the door needs removal and replacement. Pella's national service number basically stated, too bad, your problem now. The local Pella office in Richmond, VA offered nothing of any assistance with this issue. We are now having to try and find someone, anyone that can remove this piece of trim and have it replaced. Pella might make a decent product, BUT their customer service with any issues is terrible. If you buy their products, be prepared to have NO support with any issues you may have. They do not support their products after the charge a premium price for their product , install it and leave. Never ever do business with Pella if you want support after the product is installed read more

We had interior French doors, opening to a sun porch, with enclosed blinds installed by Pella in 2020. The process took longer than expected due to a series of errors by the company, sending the wrong doors and one with scratched glass so the installers had to be rescheduled several times. Now the inside glass is "hazy." After a number of phone conversations and emails to them with pictures we finally had a response, saying that although the parts are still under warranty the labor warranty expired and if we want someone to come out and take a look (or CLEAN the glass) it will be a couple hundred dollars. The representative emailed me a video of how to open the enclosed glass and clean it but it is so difficult that my husband actually damaged the frame trying to get it open. We will NEVER use Pella again! We've had several projects with Renewable by Andersen/Richmond Windows with NO issues and will only use them for future door and window projects. read more

We contracted Pella Windows & Doors to replace one 4-panel sliding door, a 2-panel sliding door and 2 bedroom windows. Our meeting with the project consultant went well and we were confident of our decision in going with Pella. The problem started with the installation, which we were told would be a 2 day job. Pella subcontracted out the project to a company that was about 3 1/2 hours away, and they completed the job to their standards in one day. They were at our house from 9:30am until 8:30pm that day. We felt like the workers were more like framers, instead of installers. They left the window jambs on the windows and refused to take them off. They also installed the 4-panel slider out of square. They also did not have all the materials to complete the job, leaving behind one of the screen panels for the large slider, and tried to figure out why one panel wouldn't fit the door. The workers did not clean up after themselves, dropping screws and nails on my floor and they ate their lunch on my front porch and left drippings all over the place. We told Pella that the contractors were not allowed in our house again. Pella did fix the various problems we had - it took several trips for them to come out because not one person could fix all at one time. We love our windows and don't have any problems with the quality of the Pella, we just had a problem with the installers that Pella had contracted and told them that they shouldn't use them on any future installations. read more

Pella makes a good product but is terrible at servicing it. I needed to purchase new exterior sills on some of my windows due to corrosion holes that are letting rain in (all Pella windows throughout the house at a cost of over $35k), but Pella said they cannot do it and have no recommendations on how to get the work done. The sills are 5 months out of warranty (10 years) so I was willing to pay anything to get them fixed/replaced, but they said they can't do it. Bottom line, I will never buy Pella products again and will warn my friends from doing so. $35,000 down the drain in 10 years. read more

My nightmares with Pella started almost immediately. I purchased all new windows for my home including a new front door. From day 1 they were failing to communicate properly regarding any scheduling dates and issues with my order. They came one day to install my windows and the crew leader who was the only English speaking worker (this has nothing to with race just the fact I could not communicate with the workers in their absence) left for 90% of the day leaving his workers at the house without any ability for me to communicate with them. In addition to that, due to the fact they had all of the windows stacked on top of one another in the truck rather than standing up like how they are supposed to transported to avoid damage, three showed up broken. Pella sales told me they would work their way around the house removing one to two windows at a time and installing them as they went so that I would have a room to work in at all times and sit with my animals. Well that is not what happened. They removed every single window in my house without installing any in its place. For hours my home sat open to the elements and I had no where safe to be with my animals. I had blocked my cats off in one room and asked that the crew leader ask his guys if they could please let me know before they go in that room so i could try and secure the animals elsewhere, but due to him leaving this was never relayed to the guys. I went to let my dogs out and turned around to my cat hanging out of a second story window. The workers were throwing windows from my second story on top of one another smashing them outside in my lawn where my animals walked and my child played. My yard looked like a tornado hit it since no one was putting any trash into the truck and was just throwing it all over the yard. The workers were using their feet to kick out windows and shattered glass all over by bedroom floor and bed (which they never cleaned up). We made a call to the crew chief that told us they were two hours away and would not be coming back. The guys didnt weather proof the exterior of the windows and my husband had to get on the ladder to check every single window as you could see perfectly outside from inside of the house through the massive gaps. It rained the next day when they were supposed to come back and pella tried to tell me that i had to wait over a month to have the rest of my install completed because other people were waiting for their windows as well..... umm so did I and my install should be completed before you move on to the next project. The next time they came back the crew chief told me he thought i was a liar and didnt believe his guys did what i said (i had videos and photos) and then proceeded to take a call on SPEAKER phone with the GM Ryan Trebour whom i had been requesting a call from for over two weeks. He proceeded to say how he thought i was a liar among other things all while on speaker outside of my window. I finally got a call from Ryan who claimed he had no idea i was waiting for his call. He proceeded to tell me the things sales told me was a lie and they dont remove a window or two and install one that its normal practice to remove every single window in the house and just leave it open for hours. He then told me that he was going to check on my window reorder personally for the broken windows and get back to me... well that never happened. They decided to assign me a new project manager who came out to assess the issues and stated they would submit my window order rush to get this taken care of. After a month of no returned calls or updates, I finally got ahold of someone who said my windows were never submitted for order even after the GM said he would make it happen and the new project manager did as well. It came time to install my door and they ripped out my old door to only call me down and say they didnt have any handles for my new door. This is just be beginning. GM Ryan refuses to return my calls and I am starting the process of getting an attorney as they already have my money for the items. DO NOT USE PELLA read more

Joshua is a great representative for Pella. His time and effort shown proves he cares about each and every project. A+

We ordered 2 doors (front and back) the back door was fine. The front door however was a special order and very costly. When it arrived for installation it was not made correctly (there was a corner that was not flush with the rest of the wood encasing the windows) the installer took the door back and said Pella would be in touch. Pella has never reached out to us. We waited two weeks and nothing. When we did call they had no information for us. We were told "I will look into that for you and call you back on Monday." Well here we are a week later and still no response! I just called the office no answer and I called the project manager again and left another message. Better hear back from them this week or I will call BBB. No customer service here! read more

Please beware of doing business with this company. They are NOT EMPLOYEES OF PELLA Windows. They are taking advantage of retired persons and selling them anything just to make a sale. ELDER ABUSE/RIP OFF THE ELDERLY. Chris Thomas absolutely falsely described and promised that the replacement windows he was selling us would be so much better than the ones we had (which, by the way, did not leak and functioned properly). We would seeking windows with better sound barriers and he PROMISED we would be so much happier. The windows are cheap and an inferior product. Our old windows performed twice the level of these new windows. I contacted Jason Dowdy, who along with Chris, was down right rude and obnoxious and washed his hands of providing any help. All he could say is that they were installed properly. And maybe they are but they are a low quality, sub par product. No one at this company - Pella Virginia Inc, independently owned (no legal affiliation with Pella Corp) or at Pella Corporaton headquartered in Pella, Iowa, will take responsibility for the untruths and inconsistencies of their subcontractors. Watch out for this company. They are out to rip off retired individuals just to make a commission without regard to the products being sold. WORST WINDOW COMPANY IN THE WORLD. Don't make this foolish mistake. Pella Manufacturing takes no responsibility and Pella Virginia (who by the way, is not at all affiliated as employees with Pella manufacturing. read more

Now is not the time to purchase windows. Placed my order with Pella in early September with an installation date in January. Installation was pushed back to March. Now I am looking at installation in May at the earliest. Who knows when I will actually get my windows?!?! read more

First off this company Pella Windows of Richmond Virginia gave me a estimate 4200.00 sliding back door for breakfast book back fun October November time frame. The sales man was great, I was not ready to move on the deal at the time even though I secured financing through greensky. Green sky gave me an approval that ends on May 5th 2023. This past week I decided to move on with purchase because the weather has changed and I wouldn't have to worry about keeping my house warm. I reach out toy sales man and he told me he quit the company, and he would pass me to the new sales guy, big mistake ! This guy told me Pella no longer accommodates the 48 month interest free payment even though they are not the financiers ! This guy tried to give me 12 months interest on a 4200.00 Installation ! Of course I said Nope ! So I go to the website and it clearly states 36 month zero interest , and this NEW GUY TELLS ME HE CANT DO IT ! So what that tells me is that he's so worried about lining his own pockets he said screw the company ! So spemd your hard earned money where you please ! I'm going to head to Lowe's or Home Depot ! It's kinda hard to respect sales people like this. I thought I would inform you guys how the sales man for Pella Windows will disregard the website and do their own thing ! I can't do business with a company like this ! read more

Let me say again....poor poor poor customer service! It is 4 months now and we are waiting on replacement for defective door. Today the female SERVICE MANAGER talked to my husband very unprofessionally to include telling him he was lying....really????? Not to mention one of their contractors who basically did the same earlier in the week. So glad we have had many people in our home who have seen the door and we have had the opportunity to tell them to run from Pella. Terrible customer service! read more

PELLA: "Viewed to be the best." And I deserve the best and got it. Best windows best service.

Great showroom and customer service is top notch. Unmatched quality when comparing apples to apples with other manufacturers. Salespeople are very knowledgeable and took the time to understand my needs and make sure all questions are answered thoroughly. Looking forward to recommending to all my friends and family. read more

I ordered 4 9 ft sliders with slim shades a year ago, one slider window had a totally disconnected slider in the window panel that could not be fixed and had to reorder a panel, 4 times it was ordered, and 4 times the order got screwed up and the reinstall cancelled. They either 9rder wrong door size panel, etc. They can elled each install the morning of, and then won't get back to schedule or expedite a new fabrication and install, called the project manager or anyone is painful as no one answers, the sales person assured me he'd keep,up with it, but nothing, I've reach out to try and talk to General Manager as I have a bad heart failure issue and still nothing. Last time 5his week there suggesting 4 more months to wait ...and I know they could expedite this for a sick person. 40 grand and n9 customer service....if i dont hear from them in the next cpl of days i will take legal action...a disbled vietnam era vet with chronic heart failure...shame on them,they have my number and can call anytime to fix this.​ read more

I am very happy with Pella Products but when you need service they are MIA!! I have called or emailed more than once with no response. I would think twice before purchase. read more

great showroom! very knowledgeable staff. very happy with product and experience The whole project smoothy. Highly recommend if you are replacing your windows read more

Worst experience I have ever had with a business. After ordering through a salesman and waiting for two months for installation, and original installation date postponed but no call till two hours after they were supposed to be here, Pella came and ripped out our old patio double doors and storm doors, destroying them, only to find out custom door ordered did not fit. Also brought wrong hardware we ordered. They ended up going to Lowes and buying cheap patio doors that is too small and made them fit. No screens and our only way to get fresh air in our basement home all Fall. In order to rectify set another appoint with new sales person because first one ordered us door that wouldn't work. Told he didn't know what he was doing. Second sales person didn't show for appointment. Rescheduled. Promised to have in stalled in 15 days. Did not happen, no calls. Another call and another two weeks and today was finally install date at 8-10am this morning. Took off work. Nothing. Called again. Scheduler lied and said didn't even know where her crew was. Now saying 4:30 today per corporate. Scheduler in Richmond knew that they weren't coming this morning but forgot to call. She has messed up every step of this process. She is an idiot. And likes to share her personal troubles as to why her life is so hard when apologizing. So waiting.... I would never recommend Pella Windows and doors or use again ever. And these are very expensive doors. Bad customer service and poor communication with customers. and inexperienced sales people. Total clusterfuck of a business. Even having door cost reduced some doesn't make this business any better. Just really want to be done with them. read more