As with anything that has to do with UCI staff, they are incompetent, useless, moronic, and absolutely idiotic. Housing staff though manage to raise to new heights of stupidity. First of all, rent a private house. They call this housing, but it's just cattle farm for them to leech even more money off of students. No privacy, they enter your house at least once a month with no warning. Get ready to live with insects and sewage, or listen to everyone from the houses next to you and above since even a tent has better build quality than this place. Zero compensation when they knew very well they owe it to you and a deluge of threatening emails once you take legal action. This toilet is not worth it. read more

Been here 9 days. So far I have dealt with sewage flooding, a spider infestation, and in general just being given the keys to a filthy apartment. If I had been given the chance to see this place before I moved in (you know, like any normal renting situation where they aren't blatantly taking advantage of students), I would not have accepted it. See photos below. read more

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If I could give this place 0 stars I would. They are the most incompetent and cruel housing office I have ever seen. Robin Michaels specifically should be fired from her position for how cruel she is. If you apply to transfer to other grad housing at UCI, they will never look at it. They admit that they never look at the transfer requests when you speak with management on the phone. They also refuse to update their system to recognize resident's cars, as I got three parking tickets in one single month of living there. Not to mention that the facilities are extremely old and the management does not care. I would never live here again, and if you are thinking about UCI, if you can't afford private housing, just don't go there because you will be miserable. Worst student housing I have ever experienced. Fire Robin Michaels, she yells at students and is the meanest person I have ever encountered. I hope UCI sees this and takes action against her. She is exploiting students' vulnerability on a daily basis. read more

I was already thinking of what I'd write for my scathing ONE-STAR review of this place while I spent almost an hour looking for a place to park in the VERY FEW visitor parking spaces they offer here. Considering the size of the Palo Verde apartment community, why is there so few spaces reserved for visitors? Do they believe that residents should forego having any type of social company over? Compared to Verano Place - the other graduate student housing community across the street - Palo Verde pales in the number of parking spaces available. I had almost given up on visiting a friend who was moving out of town, when I made one more full circle and managed to snag a spot by a minivan which was clearly occupying two spaces. read more

Why the negative reviews?! I've lived in Palo Verde (Family Housing) for 2 years now. My boyfriend and I have 2 more years in our doctoral programs and we are happy to stay put. The only problems we ran into involved actually moving into the complex. We had to jump through hoops to get onto the waitlist, such as having our "domestic partnership" notarized in order to live together (I attend a different university). It's strange that a notary had to bear witness for that. We also moved in with our dog. She's my seizure assistance animal, as I have epilepsy. UCI housing tried to convince us that she was an emotional support dog and didn't want to let us move in. Thank goodness I knew my rights because I was able to cite every ADA law that Palo Verde Housing had violated by asking for more information about my condition than the law permits. As soon as I sent that email notifying them of their violations, I immediately received a response of, "Welcome to Palo Verde!" FYI, if you have a service animal, one of the only things that can be asked of you is: What service does the animal perform? Other than that, the past 2 years has been fantastic. Maintenance is so on top of everything and very friendly. For example, our kitchen sink got clogged recently and we put in a work order request. A few hours later, three men were here working on the sink for almost 2 hours. There was water spilled on the floor from working on the sink and I told them to not worry about it. Little did I expect, they actually got on their hands and knees and cleaned the entire kitchen to leave it cleaner than they found it! I've had only fantastic experiences with all the maintenance workers here. Btw, rent is ridiculously reasonable. We were looking at similar apartments in Irvine for $2,000+. This place is almost half the cost with most utilities included. Oh and the deposit was only $100 compared to $550 at our last place. Palo Verde can't be beat. Aside from all the things I mentioned, what I love most is living near all our friends in my boyfriend's program. I get to see his colleagues often and we have become a very tight knit group. There's nothing quite like living on campus at a wonderful university. read more

This place has tanked over the past year or two. Here are just a few of the latest issues with this place: 1) I'll start easy. Ever since switching cable service to Apogee, I haven't been able to get a decent signal. Over a year of phone calls, multiple techs coming out, and more - there's still no solution (I've actually been told to buy a new TV on occasion. My TV is only a couple years old). 2) One time I heard the door bell ring and literally less than 5sec later someone was opening my door with a key - it turned out to be the PV staff checking on smoke detectors. They didn't even wait for a response (or for me to toss on a jacket or anything) before they barged in, stood in my living room, and started talking (as if I wasn't there) while I was trying to just get fully dressed. Talk about indecency. 3) Now with the new lease renewal, me and my wife have to get a notary signature confirming that we're married?! What the heck? We've been living here for almost 5 years together and we both work full time and now we have to PAY to get someone to sign off on our lease? We have our marriage certificate/license signed by the OC clerk - isn't that enough? This place just causes more and more headache over the years. If graduate salaries weren't so miserable I'd be out of here in a heartbeat. read more

Clean apartments, nice management, and prompt repairs. I've only lived in apartments in Davis, but living in Irvine is ridiculously expensive. So when there was a chance to live in a subsidized-esque type style where you only pay 1188 for 2 bedrooms/1bathroom, my bf and I jumped and grabbed the deal. The apartments are extremely clean and have really good quality carpets. The rooms are decently sized and the kitchen is cute, but a tad small. If you're into aesthetics, they also feature some apartments on the newer side of Palo Verde (PV) which have "faux" granite tops! Management wise, people are generally very nice and helpful. The maintenance crew is awesome - they repair things within 24-48 hours, it's fabulous. If you're a graduate student, the campus is literally a walk away, so you can save alot on transportation if you like. read more

The maintenance team is the BEST. The front office people are very kind. But they would be better served here in general if they spent time addressing actual issues of residents. They're too passive. Examples: -Mild reminders in the weekly newsletter that dogs aren't allowed in the complex. There are seven on my floor alone. How about actual action to address this? -Mild reminders in the same newsletter not to throw trash around the dumpsters, but in them. There are rats outside daily because nobody's reading those newsletters and actually correcting their behavior, Palo Verde. How about consequences? -Instead of offering cooking events (where only women cook and men show up to eat), maybe some "considerate neighbor" training offered by the complex would be useful instead. Teach people that the floors are thin and stomping and door-slamming creates anxiety issues for everyone living around you. This would be a better place to live if those in charge were less passive and actually did something about the problems. I'm sure they won't read this, however, much less change in response to it. I could rent a house with acreage in other parts of the state for the price I pay to live here. It's just another way in which UCI is cheating its students: management not managing. I'm also unsure why some of the reviews here mention the garden being a plus. It's my understanding that there's a wait list for a space in it, and I've been on said wait list for almost two years. I live right by the garden, and on the weekends there are a bunch of older people who don't appear to be students/ residents who drive in, park all over the place, and garden, then leave. There seem to be plenty of abandoned plots yet I've never gotten one. Doesn't seem to be a perk for (many, if any) residents to really enjoy. read more

WARNING Be very thorough in doing your move-in inspection--note everything that is dirty, stained or damaged. EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING. Otherwise, they will charge you. They are not fair in assessing what is clean/unclean or damaged upon move out (and seemingly move in too). They are not very well organized or efficient, or perhaps they don't have great customer service skills. If you send them an email, they may or may not reply. Good luck! read more

Super disappointed by the way we are treated not only by the school but by housing as well. They are constantly concerned with what we are doing in our private homes. Housing official continuously ask where students are going and who they will be seeing. Threaten to call police or involve student conduct in every mass email to residents. Policies have been put in place that would forcefully remove you from your own home if you tested positive for Covid. Housing requires you to share personal and private medical info with housing official. Which they have accidentally sent to everyone on multiple occasions. They have also prohibited our contact with people inside or outside the community regardless of situation. Aka if we see our own families in a perfectly safe manner (6ft away in a park) or your boyfriend or girlfriend comes over. They insist that they will terminate your lease or student status if they catch you. Mostly just treating residents as children and attempt to exert their control beyond the scope of any housing organization could ever legally do. Cannot wait to end my lease. read more

I have lived here for two years in building 7100 adjacent to the workshop. It's loud every morning (workers get here 7am) and you wake up to a variety of noises: ringing, talking, the sound of hammering, conversations. Some genius decided to place a workshop 10ft from a residential building. Kerri Sherwood, the director of residential life, ignores emails, doesn't solve anything. If she responds to your emails she's like Betsy Devos, she repeats the same thing 3x. There's no lighting fixtures in the bedrooms but there's lights everywhere else, in the closet, kitchen and bathrooms? -_- There's also a really loud garbage truck that comes at 8am Mon-Sat, so if you stayed up late working you'll be in for another loud surprise even if you don't live by the workshop. Only plus is rent is cheap and work orders for broken/clogged sinks are addressed quickly. If you live by the community room be prepared for late night parties and the noise. Overall I hate living here and can't wait to move to Verano. The verano staff is also more productive and pleasant. :) read more

Satisfied with the living experience and the staff at Palo Verde. Both the quality of the apartment and the overall organization of things was far superior than Campus Village Grad. Although the location is a little more annoying, I think it's worth the extra driving/aggravation. If I had known sooner, I would've gotten to PV earlier. read more

To be honest I've lived here for more than a year and while these apartments aren't perfect, they're really great for their price and location. I'm pretty sure this is Section 8 housing for low-income students, so honestly what do you expect? I do feel that the new apartments are a better deal than the old ones, and perhaps my opinion will only reflect my own good experiences. Have I had issues with my apartment? YES! My fridge is out of whack, I had a pest in the attic space above my third floor apartment, and I've had horrible neighbors who are rude grad students (I'm sure they think the same of me, lol!). However, in every single case the employees at the housing office have gone out of their way to help me out and have done their best to remedy any situations. Ingrid, Kerrie, and all the employees working here are always concerned with keeping everything going smoothly. They also offer plenty of student/resident programs for people of all ages, from children to full on adults. The only really big issues I see here are the following: 1) Spiders and roaches. No matter how much you try to insulate your apartment, they will come! If you're scared of bugs, be prepared with the tools and sprays to fight for your life. 2) No AC. Buy fans or a portable/window AC and let the office know! 3) THIN FLOORS, even in the new apartments. I may have had a few exceptionally sensitive neighbors, but I LITERALLY glide on my tiptoes and I would have my neighbor knock on the ceiling. I'm terrified of having guests over in fear of upsetting my neighbors if anyone walks. When people do come to my apartment, I'm watching how they walk like a Tiger Mom and reminding them to walk quietly, but honestly the downstairs neighbors don't realize that. I was once gently chopping vegetables and my downstairs neighbor said that it sounded like I was hammering into the floor. I mean some of the neighbors are just ridiculous because even my fellow students that also live here say they're not as considerate as me and they don't get knocks on the floor, but honestly whatever. But I have also heard downstairs neighbors walk and even have intimate moments, so I think it's a problem with the architecture and flimsy build of the apartments. If you walk heavy, just try or request to live on the first floor or something. Overall, I'm pretty happy I was placed here. It's been a good experience for sure. read more

I'm not really sure what I can say about PV that is positive. I've lived here for two years now, and it's a horrible living environment. PROS: - Close to campus. Takes five minutes to walk to the social sciences from where I live, so that is a huge plus. - I have a garage (I live in lower PV). It's nice not having to worry about parking since it is in such short supply. This is still annoying because I am not allowed to leave my garage door open, and they are not automatic. You have to leave your car and manually open the door each time you want to enter or exit, and then go back and close it again (in the case of exiting). If you leave it open, they take your garage from you. - Decent floor plan. My room is rather large, but I think they compensate with having a small living room and kitchen by comparison. - Maintenance crew is awesome. They always work really hard, do a good job, and are always extremely nice/helpful. CONS: - Parking. If you do not have a garage and you get home late, good luck. You may need to park in one of the campus lots, which you apparently have to pay for. Also, visitor parking is a nightmare - there are probably something like 20-30 spots for visitors in the entire complex, but residents always park in them. If you have a friend coming over, it's almost impossible for them to find parking. You also need to register the car or they risk getting a ticket, and have limited hours per quarter for doing so. This has been a huge hassle for me, resulting in me almost never inviting people over (something I loved doing before). - Expensive. I pay $50 more for a room that is the same size as I had at my previous place, and now I share a shower and bathroom with a roommate (this is after factoring in all living expenses like utilities and such). If walking to campus wasn't so convenient, I would choose to rent a room in a house with some friends, because you will save money and have a better experience - especially not having to deal with all the other faults around here. - Crappy internet. The internet is provided by the campus (nice), but it is horrible. Speed is decent, but it cuts out regularly for extended periods of time and it's really frequent (maybe twice a day at the minimum, usually just for a minute). - Horrible television reception. They have what appears to be satellite television, but the reception is really bad in some rooms. My room, for instance, does not get reception, but the living room does. I've called the folks in charge, and they have (for two years) told me that an upgrade is underway. Sure thing! - Bad construction. I noticed the other day that the floor in my living room is not level. It's off by almost two degrees. How does that happen? Walls are paper thin, interiors are almost industrial-feeling, not too cozy or homey. - The management/PV office. HOLY CRAP. I honestly would prefer to deal with the DMV rather than having to spend five minutes talking to anyone in the office or the management. I've never had a positive experience there in the two years I've lived here, and they are TRULY unhelpful. Whenever you attempt to talk to the management, they either ignore you (if you send an email), say they will talk to the appropriate person (and then toss your complaint in the trashcan), or have no answers. I have never dealt with more incompetent people in my entire life (and I worked retail during undergrad!). For instance, I recently got a "reminder" email saying that I needed to pick up my package on Monday (they emailed me at 4:00pm on Friday), otherwise it would be sent back. It was the first I heard about a package and I was away for the weekend. If you're choosing whether or not you want to live on campus, I would really recommend that you choose to live elsewhere. Renting a house with friends will cost you about the same or less, and you will like your life more. If I didn't only have a few years left in school, I would move out. For now, I'm stuck. Good luck, and feel free to message me with any questions! read more

I wanted to wait to write this review because my opinion on this place seems to fluctuate day-to-day. Sometimes it's perfectly fine and even enjoyable and other times it's dreadful. Pros: Short walk to campus, especially if you are a social science/business/law student. Beautiful landscaping, flowers, grass and the architecture at least has some interesting elements. They are trying. Sometimes I wake up and hear birds chirping, smell the flowers. Old PV has the better layout because things are more closed off. A traditional floor plan is better if you don't want to see your roommate everyday. Plus the shower and toilet are in separate rooms, so you can still get ready while your scheduleless roommate locks you out of the commode for a solid hour taking a dump while reading the New York Times. Taste of Transnistria type events as well as movie nights guarantee you some free food. It's the least they can do for you. Vegetable garden to grow your own food. Close walking distance to University Hills for a fun walk/hike. Just cross Anteater. Also close to the ARC. Housing office has always been pleasant and respectful to me. I can't say I've had an issue with them treating me badly. Cons: Woo, doggie Parking is a challenge during the school year. If you work late and come home after 10 pm, you may not find a spot. They also pack us in tight. Expect jalopies to park an inch from your door so you have to do the electric slide to get into your car. You are not guaranteed a garage in old PV, there aren't enough of them for each unit to have its own. Some of the laundry rooms are filthy and full of crap and broken washers/dryers. Sometimes they don't work at all and I have to go offsite to do my laundry en masse. They raised the rent by $75 for me after I had only lived there a few short months - Your lease always ends in July rather than locking you in for a year. They nickle and dime you with cleaning fees when you move out. Yet, it is highly rare that both roommates move out at the same time. Hence there is always one person there, and they never do a thorough job cleaning up. They are very lenient when it comes to roommate rights and agreements. Housing is in such dire demand here. It's not completely their fault if you get a dud roommate, but they could at least have a better matching system. My roommate was drunk all the time, never cleaned, was loud, and abused the apartment. Guess who had to help pay to clean when it came time to move out? The lack of air conditioning is brutal in the summer. Makes it very hard to sleep or get any work done. I had to surround myself in a ritual circle of oscillating fans, hang sheets on the windows. With global warming increasing, it's a more frequent occurrence. And even after all that, the school still has the chutzpah to tell you to conserve energy and resources. No ceiling fans or lights also hinder livability. Threadbare 1 mm carpet with cement underneath it. My heels actually hurt when I walk barefoot sometimes. The computer lab is tiny and the computers sometimes don't work. You have to bring your own paper to print. It gets very hot and stuffy in there with lots of loud belching, slurping, and mouth breathing. After all is said and done, it's still a reasonable choice for your own room in Irvine and to be close to campus. read more

I hated every single moment of living here. There is zero sense of community here, and some of the neighbors are downright awful. We have had our dryer doors opened by someone else many times while they were clearly running, and just left sitting there to waste our time and our money. No one speaks to or even smiles at each other. And while we're on the topic of laundry, they just replaced our laundry machines with smaller ones that cost more. At least these take credit cards. Management claims to host community events, but these are a joke. For example: I used to go to the "Taste of Home" event where, in theory, everyone helps cook a meal from someone's home culture, and then you all eat together. In reality, a few people (almost all women) showed up to do the cooking, and then a ton of other people who did not help cook (almost all men) showed up and ate it all, leaving us almost nothing. No thanks; I'm not here to be some random guy's unpaid cook. It seems like most of the programming is for children. If you do have children, I am sure you keep a better eye on them than some of my neighbors here do. There are unsupervised small children who scream at the top of their lungs outside my window every single day. No, I do not live near the playground. I have never seen an adult with these children, who look to range in age from about 5-8. Let's talk about management some more. Get ready to be treated like a child. There are fire drills here (you heard me), and management makes a big deal about not announcing them beforehand, not even a range of dates or times. If you ask them about it because, like me, the fire alarms trigger your migraines and leave you effectively incapacitated for a day or two, you will get a snarky email about how "in a real emergency you would have no advance warning". I will tell you that these are not done during normal business hours; they've done them around 7:15 in the morning. There is also frequent testing of the fire alarms, which you do get advance warning about, and you really can't be in your apartment at all that day. And there are fire inspections, just like you may remember from your time in the dorms. So if you are an adult who doesn't know what to do when the fire alarm goes off, or if you are incapable of teaching your own children what to do when the fire alarm goes off, or if you are the sort of person who enjoys seeing terrified children forced out of bed and made to stand outside in their pajamas, then you should live here. Every maintenance request I have ever filed has been done very quickly, usually on the same day. The work is usually but not always very good. There was black mold over my shower; the maintenance people came and sprayed some cleaner on it, then painted over it. After they did this twice, I gave up. Also, either some poor person or the maintenance request system consistently replaced the word "mold" with "microbial growth" in my requests, in what I can only assume is a bid to cover their rear ends. The location is actually pretty good. You can easily walk or bike to campus, Albertsons, Trader Joe's, or the gym. Also, if you're stuck living here, you should sign up for Sustainable Transportation, which gives you free parking passes if you don't buy a standard pass. In fact, the location and the hassle/expense of moving is the only reason we put up with living here for so long. You can also reserve meeting space in the complex. Let's break that down a bit. There is a very nice "lounge" that is kept locked. The front desk people acted surprised that I wanted to sit in there and study (because they were setting off fire alarms in my apartment). There is a "clubhouse" that is usually filthy and I am embarrassed to host events there. There is a "community room" which is basically a big open space with a kitchen, and is pretty nice. There is no air conditioning here, and only baseboard heaters, which drink electricity and do a very poor job of heating. You are not allowed to have a window a/c. You can have a portable a/c, which will cool one room and cost you about $300 new. If it gets very hot, management leaves the "lounge" unlocked after hours in what they consider to be an act of great magnanimity. It does at least show that they know you might get heat stroke if you sit in your own apartment, but I don't know how they expect you to sleep. Cable and internet are included in your rent. You get what you pay for here. The TV is mostly channels you have never heard of, and the audio/video quality varies a lot. You are forced to install a program on your computer that you will have to log into every Monday to access the internet. The internet quality is fine during non-peak hours; at night, if you can stream decent quality video, you're lucky. You can pay a ridiculous amount for better TV, but you have no choice but to use the awful internet service. read more

I've lived in the newer PV apartments for a year and a half, and I like it...okay. The details are: Cons 1) The management treats you like a child. I feel like this breeds irresponsibility of the behalf of otherwise reasonable residents (after all, wouldn't you, if your agency was stripped??). This means that people will leave trash on the staircases, trample over plants, park like idiots, or just behave like TEENAGERS. I seriously think it's because of the attitude that the management takes towards grad students. I too have found myself getting very cynical. Whatever the root reason, be prepared for A LOT of inconsiderate behavior. 2) There is very limited visitor parking and it can be troublesome if you have a lot of guests. 3) The ladies at the PV office can be extremely rude and unknowledgeable. Other times they are lovely. It's really such a polarized toss-up 4) There's no overhead lighting in the bedrooms or in the living room. I have no idea why. Bring lots of lamps. The kitchen and bathrooms are fairly well lit. 5) They don't do roommate matching type work, so YOU have to be very careful with whom you agree to live. They say that they'll only give you one shot, but don't let them bully you--it's your house and you should review your prospective roommates very carefully. It's just an extra hassle. Pros 1) Free parking basically on campus. Saves a ton of money on parking. 2) Has a campus bus route stop (at least, near the newer PV apartments) 3) They just installed new washers and dryers that are an ENORMOUS improvement over the junky old ones. They take regular debit cards, which is nice because you don't have to go to the office to re-fill a laundry card or anything. It's a bit pricey (1.75 to wash and 0.75 to dry...yeesh). 4) They are no-nonsense apartments--sturdy dentist-office carpets, white paint on the walls, faux-granite tops in the kitchen, lots of storage. I initially considered moving to one of the newer, fancier apartments (VDC, PDS, etc), but no grad student cares a damn about faux-hardwood floors or fake leather couches. It's just a nice, sturdy apartment to live in for what I think it is a fairly reasonable price. Definitely the better choice. 5) Cats and caged animals are allowed, unlike basically everywhere else on UCI's campus. Overall, fairly decent, and inexpensive, even if somewhat soul-sucking in its demeanor. Management could use an attitude adjustment. read more

So far, so good! I lived here for about 6 months now. I've had zero problems. The apartments are pretty nice, and you can't beat the price in Irvine. There is some cool places you can get to in the area as well, although the actual establishment is pretty boring. There's a community garden, too, which is awesome. It's hard to beat this place if you are one of the few, the poor, the proud who live in Irvine. read more

Horrible! Awful. I hate very minute I lived there. Pros: near UCI, (engineering gateway 5-10 min walking), cheap. Cons: the same that the other reviews, management and office staff is the worst, they are only there working for money, they dont like to help people. And now I have to complete it with my experience. I went to UCI as an exchange visitor to purse my master thesis for 6 months, during this time I was forced to live with a roomate which had schizophrenia, he laughed, spoke, argued, and discussed alone during the night which scared me a lot. I asked several times for changing but they did not allow me. I do not recommed this place absolutely. read more

I've lived in the older "lower" PV apartments for a few years now. Manual open/close garages are available (1 per unit) and it's cheaper than newer "upper" pv. Not much room in the garage for additional storage, but they cannot be locked anyway. However, as with all "newer" (see also: built after 1985) buildings around here, they are made like the cardboard "forts" you made as a kid. I can hear my neighbors pee, cough, walk, talk, etc. In other words, the walls and floors are paper thin. A lot of the lower PV units are being updated, but ours hasn't been yet. Industrial style carpet, windows with holes in the track so your electric bar that radiates "heat" right below it only causes the blinds to flutter as cold air fights against the hot air (even with the window completely closed). Remember, in PV you have to pay for electricity so the inefficient windows = expensive electric bill in the cold season. Like other reviewers have mentioned, management is lacking and does treat you like a child. Don't ever email the generic PVoffice@uci email, you will never ever ever get a response no matter how urgent the subject matter. You have to email a specific person in the office or go in person to get a response. Not sure why they even have the pvoffice email. Often no notification that maintenance staff is going to enter your unit while you're away at work. The only way you know they were there, is a little scribbled form they leave on your table. Isn't it the law in California to give minimum 24hrs notice that they need to enter your unit? Yes, yes it is. I agree with the other reviewer, this does breed apathy in neighbors. I too have become apathetic and cynical over the years. How can you not? If you treat people like children with little privacy, little dignity, and little professionalism, ... what do you expect? Plus, it's such a transient population; people are constantly moving in and out. You never know what to expect in terms of neighbors. I had potted plants stolen from my porch which is not located on a common walkway and is not visible from the road/sidewalk. I had friends in upper PV also have potted plants stolen on a regular basis. I guess that is just the nature of this type of student housing. If you want cheap housing close to campus and don't care about mediocre management and cheap quality buildings, then PV is for you. However, I have friends who live in old Verano apartments, and while older and not as appealing to the eye on the exterior, they were built with higher quality (can't hear your neighbors pee) and gas heating is central (all included in rent). It's also cheaper than PV. Steer clear of the new Verano apartments, they are more expensive than PV for the same shoddy quality in building materials. 1 star for price, 1 star for being on campus. 0 stars for everything else. read more