I am buying a used vehicle from a private party that had service done to a 2014 Ford Expedition on 4/15/2024. Two items o service were "Timing Chain Replacement with a gasket and crankshaft seal replacement" and a "Antifreeze/coolant flushed/changed". The SUV has had less than 2K miles driven on it in that time period, its being sold because the owner is now in poor health and can no longer drive it. Upon inspecting it before negotiating a purchase, it has a clearly visible oil leak high on the passenger side of the engine at an upper timing cover bolt, and, the engine coolant recovery tank has no apparent coolant in it, it is nowere near the visible "cold level" mark on the recovery tank. This is some very bad service, it is no longer under warranty, and its a shame that the owner did not catch these issues and return to have them fixed. read more

Bought $56000 2024 GMC Canyon Denali from their GMC dealership and drove home and drivers side daytime running light not working. Emailed the next day to see if they really inspected vehicle prior to delivery "everything was working". Hard to believe. So I was told to call my local dealer in Iowa City for fix, that was July, now October, still not fixed. My point is after sale they pretty much said pound sand, not to mention the "dealer add-ons they try to stick you with like paint sealants and security etching for several hundred dollars is just a dealer scam and high pressure extended warranty sales. (Can buy from your insurance agency). Drove 170 miles and poor service! read more

Gjovik Ford - Driver side lights not working - Auto Repair Near Me - Plano, Illinois

Stay far away from this place. Same people, same service, and same ripoffs! If you want to get screwed over, then I recommend taking your vehicle here. I went twice when it was gjovic ford and the first time I got an oil change or so I thought. I marked my filter prior to going in. My filter was never changed and when I drove off I had oil coming out from under my hood. They never put the cap back on! The second time I went was because my kid lost my key fab and my second one wasn't working. They were going to charge me $400. Thankfully a guy working there said I could go to a 3 party and get one for less than half! I contacted a few people and sure enough it was $175.... I swore I'd never go back. Well I went to go to an oil change place and turns out it was bought out by gjovic now TERA.... I told the guy I wasn't comfortable as I'd been screwed by them twice. He said it was the same people but new management and he was moved over from the oil change place that was bought out and he'd make sure things went well. I was in a pinch and needed done asap, so I thought I'd give them a shot. I went it there with not a single issue on my truck! 2017 f250 6.7 lariat. I picked it up with a quote to rebuild/repair the upper seals of my transmission and it needed to be checked! Since that day my transmission has been messed up. It clunks shifting from 3-4 and 5-6 really bad. Drove smooth as can be prior. Never had a leak on my new, yes new concrete driveway and now all of a sudden it leaks! Stay away from this place! read more

Do not go here ! 1)Took truck in for repairs. Took three months to complete.(sort of fixed). 2)The communication from them was horrible, almost non-existant. 3) Once paid for repairs it took fifteen miles till check engine light came on(three different codes - one was for original problem),12v outlet not working (was working when dropped off),remote start not working (was working when dropped off), called and took back . 4) picked up and was told nothing was wrong. That the mechanic seen the codes and didn't know why so they cleared them . Nothing was done or said about the two items that was working before they worked on the truck. 5) Picked up drove home . Went to store next day and check engine light came back on(same three codes). Called and brought it back . I was told that the check engine light is a permanent code now and it will go away in time . I asked how long and they said it could be tomorrow to the life of the truck. I asked about the other two items that had stopped working when it was in their shop . The service writer picked up the phone and said your truck is out there . Just dismissed me like I was inconveniencing her . I then asked another employee for someone higher than her and explained why and was told that the service manager was a busy person and they would reach out to me . This is a very condensed version for a four month dilemma. As of writing this review, over a month since last in person interaction, no one has reached out to me . ONCE AGAIN DO NOT GO HERE FOR SERVICE!!! read more

Worst car buying experience ever! I have bought 6 new chevys in my life with no issues. This ford is cheaply built, i was treated with zero respect as a retired older lady. Everything EVERYONE there has told me has proven to be untrue and the supposed service is a joke. Go somewhere else. read more

This is the worst dealer to deal with! First off my car hadn't been looked at in a day and a half. Then I called after the first day and was told my the GM of the service department that "customers who have bought from this dealer or regularly service there come first." WOW! The owner claims that "customer service is their top priority." How I was treated was not top priority and to tell a customer that because they have paid no money to this dealer is wrong! There is a reason their average is 2.5 stars. I will be taking all my future business to Manning Ford where I have been taken care of very well! read more

Terrible dealership worst I have dealt with in 40 years. Bought a used ford edge had it for a year total lemon over 4,000 dollars put into it that was getting it repaired from a friend because of cost. Now open sunroof and it breaks, stays open, take it to Gjovik they quote me $3,000 to fix $513 to leave broken but they will get it closed. I tell them that's way too much they tell me if I was getting car serviced by them they would have worked with me. I responded can't afford your prices. Would not bring my bicycle here!!!!!!!! Had to put 1 star when I really wanted zero stars. read more

Purchased a brand new new 2023 Bronco Sport, everything started off smoothly with my salesmen however things took a huge turn for the worse. During the negotiating process they had added a bunch of stuff on to the price of the car, which was not listed on the window sticker or any add-on sticker. One of the items was Resistall Ceramic Paint protection and upholstery protection. I told them I didn't want this stuff and had a friend that I get this sort of stuff from but they said it was already installed/applied on the vehicle. I said I was not going to pay for it so they knocked a couple hundred off. So I ended up buying the vehicle. A couple days later I took the vehicle to a friend who owns three of the largest high-end shops in the Chicagoland area who specializes in ceramic coatings, protective films, wraps in window tinting. I wanted him to apply some protective film to the front and tint my two front windows. He asked if I wanted ceramic(at his cost he is very a good friend) then I proceeded to tell him the dealer already coated it. He rubbed his hand against it and laughed and said this paint has not been ceramic coated. Then he walks me 30 ft over to his personal car which was coated over a year ago and told me to run my hand across the paint then to do the same to my vehicle. There was a HUGE difference, his car felt like slick glass, my paint felt rough and almost sticky compared to his. He then took out some special light and looked at my paint and then showed my the paint of his car under the light...keeping in mind my car was a brand new 2023 and his is a couple years old. Then he took out a spray bottle and sprayed water on my hood and fender, the water didn't bead, then he did the same to his and it beaded up and rolled right off the paint. Last but not least he then proceeded to apply his ceramic finish to a 12 inch section of my fender with a piece of masking tape dividing the section he coated and the uncoated section. When he peeled the tape away he then had me run my hand across both the area he just coated and the uncoated area and WOW what a difference. When I called and e-mailed the dealership to inquire they said "oh maybe it somehow got missed". At that point I began doing some research on the Resistall product and found out that it is not even a real Ceramic product and it is simply sprayed on the vehicle, similar to any product you can buy at Autozone and apply in your own garage at home for $30. When I asked for a refund they told me that was not an option, they said I could bring the car in and they would apply the product to the paint. At that Point I reached out to a family member who is an attorney and will be pursuing legal action against this dealership. To the Gjovic people if you read this, yeah, you got me, good for you and nice work but you messed with the wrong customer, I won't just let this go. Stay away from this dealership, they are very dishonest. If you do end up dealing with them do not accept any of these paint protection services. read more

It's a reason why this dealership only has 3 stars. My sons been working with a salesperson for about a week to secure the purchase of his dream car. He was told to bring the down payment in cash. However, his original contact had an emergency and passed him along to her peer to close the deal. Anthony and Ron refused to take the cash down payment stating "it looks sketchy". Although he was told to bring cash. Why is this an issue? You don't say something like that to a black man. It appears to be racially motivated and downright disrespectful. If you are a minority please strongly consider this post before moving forward with this dealership. read more

Called ahead to schedule buy out of our lease. Told them we would have a check and just need to sign docs, please have them ready. Was told by thier employee to come at 5 and ask for Ryan. Get there and Ryan has no idea and have to wait for Sales manager to get there in 15 minutes. An hour later we are walking for the door when the sales manager walks over. He then says it was a very inconvenient time and he tried calling me all day.( I had two missed calls from different numbers and no voicemail.) 90 minutes in we are signing paperwork . No thank you for your buisness no sorry for our error. Just attitude. A sorry and a thank you would have saved a customer. Instead attitude for the inconvenience of selling me an expensive vehicle. Not going back. The service department is good though. 5 star for them. read more

Very disappointed and unhappy with warranty products sold. Was told by Ryan that catalytic converters replacement was not covered by your auto insurance. With the increase of these being stolen, we chose to take out the extra policy being offered. Fast forward my conversation with my Allstate agent, he told me of course that is covered. He was surprised that a dealership would tell a customer that. Now I am told that the policy cannot be canceled or refundable. $660 dollars. Buyers beware. Question, verify and take caution. read more

I bought my f350 from plano. After 2 weeks my main electrical harness went out 3500 to fix. Next I spent 7000 not a joke 7000 to find out I had a leaf spring broke back axel was on an angle pulling on the driveshaft which you could move by hand as well as leaking coolant and oil please do not buy from gjorv di** they will screw you over. I used their mobile maintenence to fix my trucks recall when I used my truck after my steering wheel fell off I had to pay rnr diesel in byron Ill to fix it. This is literally the worst place I've ever dealt with and I'm in my 40s. Please send your money else where. read more

After a hiccup with my salesman on my new car purchase, they redeemed themselves. My salesman quit 2 days after my purchase and I was left in limbo on a few items. I had to return for an oil change, as I bought a leftover 2017. The car was 18 months old but only had 17 miles on it. Another dealer near me highly recommended it be changed. My salesman said I could go 7500 miles before my 1st oil change. I now know it's 5000 miles before my 1st free oil change. I found my service dealer near me offered a better deal on a Ford Premium extended warranty vs Gjovik Allstate policy they offered me. I'm happy they had such a good deal on my new car purchase and offered a reasonable trade in, although I did have an offer for $500 more on my trade at a different dealer, which fell through. I saved over $3k vs a 2018 comparably equipped. read more

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They made a mistake in registration and will not correct it, and then added more things to the final bill. a fourth time back to the dealer and he said as much as "shove it" . They will not correct their mistake. Worst experience I have had with car dealers in my 64 years of driving. read more

My sales Consultant was McKenzle she was the best I have never seen someone work so hard before she put my floor mat in before I could ask she made sure my plate were on the new car before I new it she also downloaded my phone without me asking like I said I never seen anyone work so hard she gets a 10 out 10 from me and My Todd O'Reilly keep asking if I was happy he went out of his way to make sure I got the deal I wanted what a team I got a great deal and would go back and buy another car anytime very happy my car. read more

We had a great car buying experience at Gjovik. McKenzie was very professional and helpful throughout the process. We also have returned to Gjovik because their service on our previous cars has always been very good. read more

I'd give zero stars if I could. Tried placing an order for a truck in January only to be contacted months later to be informed that the order was never put in. Order banks opened again 8 months and I was left uninformed. Order banks closed within a two day period and was unable to order yet again. Also ridiculous dealer mark-ups and add ons on what is available on their lots. Clearly, when a sales manager puts their name and signature on a document it means nothing here, may as well make deals with a wink and a nod. Avoid this place, shopping local doesn't guarantee a good experience or that you'll be taken care of. read more

I usually do not write reviews but I had such a bad experience at Gjovik Ford that I have to share my experience. We had previously purchased 2 vehicles from Gjovik and were happy but when I went in to purchase a new truck I got a price from one of the salesman. Now knowing that this was a expensive purchase I told the salesman whom I used in my previous purchases that I would be shopping around and if this is the best price he could do he said yes best price. I then went to Rod Baker ford in plainfield showed them my offer from Gjovic they beat the price by 2000.00. I wanted to give my salesman from Gjovic a chance to match not beat just match the offer. So I sent him a e-mail showing him the offer. He replied to me saying I dont want to lose your business over 2000.00 come in and I will match the offer. I thought great your closer which would make it easier for service and or warranty work. I went in showed him the offer and said that he has to talk to the manager I thought then not good. He came back and said I cant match that. I said so you just lied to me to get me back in your dealership. After some words back and forth I told him that I or my family wouldn't purchase another vehicle from Gjovik again. He said good I don't want you here either. At that I went to the manager. The manager told me that the salesman is a little rough around the edges that's why we keep him in the back office and that I will match the offer this is the same manager that my salesman talked to in the first place go figure. At this point the damage was done so I left and went back to Rod Baker which was a truly wonderful experience I recommend them highly. Sorry Gjovik you had your chance and blew it. read more

Be careful friends. I went in to repair the radio and some recall work on a day off. As usual I bring donuts for the service people. This appointment is scheduled, but is it really? Upon arrival I was clarifying the radio and recall work. The parts man overheard passing by and said, we don't have the parts for that recall anyhow. Oh, okay. Well at least after a quiet covid in my car the radio will work. Well, once we really get in then we'll know what part to order. What? There's no possible way to know what part? This is a legitimate dealership? More bad news your warranty has time but you just passed the mileage so we are going to charge you the diagnostic fee of 110$. All of your brakes are at zero and need to be fixed with new rotors. Should we do that now? Whelp, let's review. Recall parts not set aside or checked on in inventory. Mysterious Radio parts not ordered in advance. Warranty not confirmed in advance. Up sell for total brake job, check. If only we had computers or telephones or possibly the ability to use them like adults? Hmmmm? Is there anything else we can do? Yes there is. The cashier was nice. She should be commended for that. Otherwise I would say this was a complete waste of showing up. An auto parts store could tell me the part and if they had it over the phone! Seriously why would I ever come back? Try address this in "the sorry you were offended" reply. Like do your very best! read more

If no stars were possible...... I've never had a worse attempt to buy - experience in all the years I've been buying cars. From Jonica who told me she thought explorers only had two interior colors to choose from to Iggy the salesman that was not able to understand anything I was asking or telling him. Including not able to type into his keyboard and handed it to me twice to type in the vin and my name and address. Yes, he attempted but twice turned over the keyboard and said please? Fast forward to getting basically nowhere with him and not remembering if I was buying or leasing. I overheard him talking to the sales manager Eric, and decided I'd walk over, interrupt and give him the information Iggy wasn't able to communicate. Keeping in mind I told Iggy upfront I'm a buyer, not a shopper. They showed me the numbers if I was leasing or buying as options. By this time I'm so aggravated I didn't even pay much attention. I asked Iggy to make me a copy and while he was doing that - Eric saw my frustration and handed me his card and told me to call him. A day or so went by and Eric emailed me apologizing for Saturday and let him know what he can do. I sent a long email back explaining I've gone in a different direction. He never responded. I received a few calls from Iggy without leaving messages. (I knew the phone number coming in). Finally on the 3rd day Iggy called again. I answered the phone. He knew nothing about the email to Eric. I told him I'm not interested and Eric should give you the feedback. Within a few minutes Iggy calls my number again. I didn't answer. I followed that call with another email to Eric. To this day- no response from Eric as to my two emails. No regard to a potential customer for the future even if it wasn't this time. I've since purchased a car from a competitor (within 5 days) following this debacle. Numbers were much better from the competitor and never even had to talk about my Gjovik numbers as I did eventually look at Eric's. I wanted to support the 'guy out in the country' but received customer service I couldn't even imagine getting in a big dealership where people buy cars due to convenience of the location and if customer service came with it, all the better. I think an overhaul of the staff might be in order, or customer service training from Corporate if the Blue Oval status means anything at all to this dealership. read more

I bought a new ford expedition from Gjovik Ford. everything on the car is great except the radio reception. Since the vehicle was still under full warranty I took it to Gjovik on June 13th and asked them to fix it. they are refusing to honor the warranty they gave me. I have called Scott Gjovik 4 times......he does not have voicemail....they tell me his "mailbox is full". I left word each time with a very nice operator .....but.....he has never called me back. I am surprised they are breaching their own contract just because of radio reception. Steve. read more

Very unhappy that I signed to have my husbands credit ran with Gjovik only, not knowing if the numbers would even work with a truck we were interested in and his credit was ran 7 different times dropping his score 20 points. When we couldn't reach an agreement now the interest rate when we go elsewhere will be higher!! Didn't sign up for this! Believed only Gjovik would run a credit inquiry. When We contacted our sales person he said, "I made you the offer based on credit score before it was dropped due to inquiries.. standard practice." Just be SURE that you are close on a deal because you will take a hit that will impact for 2 YEARS! Shame, as we have bought vehicles at Gjovik for 15 years.. and Mr. Gjovik is VERY personable and nice. We were not prepared for this read more

Update on Gjovik Ford in Sandwich IL. I'll start negative first. I Don't think their "Now" New car sales manager should manage certain things as he is the one who dropped the ball. My car got fixed and I'm satisfied. Still won't buy another Ford. Anything you arrange with any dealer, ask to have it in writing. Use email system as records for yourself . And in my opinion if you have any issues what so ever ask for Thomas J Conlin General Manager/Fixed Operations Director He went the extra mile for me and You get to skip the runaround bs. read more

This is probably one of the worst Car dealerships I have ever been too. Very unprofessional and rude. Greeted me with "Bro" and every other word was "F this and Sh%# man". Just overall poor experience. Was looking to buy a truck and walked away because of how unprofessional they are. 0 out of 10. Would not recommend. read more

Very nice dealership to visit. Friendly staff and Nick the manager was very helpful in the decision making process. I would highly recommend giving this dealership a try! read more

This review is based on customer service from the Parts Department. I was camping Millbrook and lost my car keys. We were about to head home to Chicago and begin loading car when panic set in when we couldn't find keys! After a couple of hours searching, I ended up calling Gjovik Ford to see if we could arrange a copy of the keys for our Escape. Well the gentleman I spoke to was very friendly, calm and helpful and put my mind at ease that we could get a copy and the steps involved. My keys were found in the end but I still feel the need to give a great review as it's not often that customer service shines and in this case it was exemplary. Thank you to that lovely gent! read more

My experience wasn't awesome at Gjovik, but it wasn't terrible either. I was looking to trade my 2011 Ford Escape, but it wasn't something I had to get rid of. I had already test drove some Ford Edges so I knew what I wanted and we came down from Sycamore to specifically look at one particular car. The salesman let us take it out on a drive without him, which I liked, so we could be more comfortable. We came back deciding we were very interested if the numbers could work. Online the car was listed for 23,900. On the paperwork the salesman's starting number was 24,900. He let us take the car to grab some lunch while we were waiting to hear back on an interest rate. While talking it over at lunch we had discovered the 1,000 discrepancy. We came back and pointed it out to him and he changed the starting number on the paperwork immediately and stated that the "online team sometimes puts cars for 1,000 less than what they're actually listed at." Riiiiight... Our experience up until this point wasn't anything to complain about. The salesman came back with a number and told me that they could give me 8,000 for my 2011 Ford Escape. I was disappointed because KBB listed it as being worth 9,500 to 13,000 roughly and that was with the rust I had recently found on it. I've taken GREAT care of my vehicle, rust would be the only issue with it, which I found out was a common problem with that specific vehicle. I told the Salesman I was hoping to get at least 9,500 and he stated that "KBB doesn't take into account dealerships trying to selling the car after." Ok, whatever... After that we began asking to see the worksheet on the contract that specifically listed all the prices and how everything worked out to monthly payments. Salesman stated that "we would definitely be able to see it before agreeing to anything." Never saw anything from him after that. He took us over to finance to complete paperwork. We were ready to walk away if the numbers weren't going to work. Salesman had us sign some paperwork either denying or taking extended warranties, etc. At one point he handed us a sheet with a huge X he drew on it and stated "sign this stating you don't want the protection packages." We asked him what it was and it was a rust protection and/or interior protection package. After more questioning we found out that they offered a rust protection package for 7 years from the day you buy the vehicle in which if rust comes up it will be fixed no questions asked with no additional cost. Yeahhhhh that's the whole reason I was trading in my car, yes please. We went with the lowest package option that protects the exterior only and decided we could scotch guard the interior ourselves if we were that worried about it. He tried several times to sell us on the entire package which would have been 1,000 versus 600. Once we got over to the finance department they had me talk to their clerk to renew my plates which were due in a month. I was going to have to go to the DMV to do this anyway so it was one less thing for me to worry about. Authorized that and then waited for about 20 minutes to see the finance manager. Once we were in the in the finance managers office we again asked about the worksheet with all the numbers laid out.. The finance manager told us we for sure would see it before officially buying the car. He then continued to have us sign every piece of paperwork needed to complete the sale and then finally gave us the final contract with the spreadsheet of numbers we had been asking for the entire time. When we questioned something on it he stated "oh don't tell me something isn't right now, all the paperwork is done." . The numbers ended up working for us, even though I wished I could've gotten a little more on trade in, but 1500 wasn't going to stop us at that point. We were extremely irritated we were promised that we could see the spreadsheet of numbers and then put off until the last second. We asked them to wash the car before we took it. They may have squirted water on it, but it was far from being washed, dust everywhere still on it when we left. The only reason I'm giving two stars instead of one is because of the service department after the sale. I had to schedule to bring my car back in for the rust protection the following week. After we got the car home we noticed several issues with the car. My antenna was missing, the panel in the front passengers foot well was unclipped and hanging down, my oil was at 17%, and there was a belt noise coming from the engine. Once I arrived at the service department I made them aware of the issues. They gave me a loaner car for the time being. When I came back to pick my car up all issues had been resolved. Last thing, was not happy to see they're selling my trade in for 15,900... So don't let them jerk you around on trade ins. read more

Terrible. Emailed to see if we could trade our ford escape for a new ford escape. I told the sales person jonica the exact amount we owed on our car the exact milage and the vin # for the trade in information. We filled out the online financing as we don't like sitting in a car dealership for three hours to buy a car. We chose the model we wanted and the payment we were comfortable with.....she said come in we can make the deal. After we drove out there to complete the deal we were told our trade in had too many miles and we owed too much on it.....wtf! I told them all this info ahead of time! Thanks for wasting our time gjovic ford! read more

Sold us a lemon, broke down a week later and they basically told us "too bad". Do not buy from them, there are other dealerships that are honest and care about their customers. read more

I went up there to look at a 2019 new Escape Titanium Where as they tried to convince me a new 1 has 2200 miles and was titled to dealership itself, They want to sell it at new car Price my guess is If I drove 1 in with 2200 miles it would be called used! I wouldn't waste my time with these people EXCEPT I DID. U Decide How many Pinochios? read more

Iggy at Gjovik Ford is a great guy and an honest sales person! Highly recommended.

We purchased a 2015 Ford Explorer XLT and couldn't be happier! The service was fantastic...Steve Woods was our sales associate, and he was wonderful! He did a fantastic job of helping us narrow down our options based on what we were looking for, and he was very helpful, honest and straightforward with us, not to mention very friendly and personable! We would definitely return to this dealership for future vehicle purchases and recommend them to friends and family! Thanks! read more

I have purchased 3 vehicles from Gjovik since 2010. I have always been very pleased with the level of attention and quality of service provided by the entire organization Iggy Campos knows the ins and outs of the vehicles he sells and is extremely well versed in making sure you understand what the vehicle comes with. The service organization always does a great job of taking care of me in a timely manner. I have had service done at the dealership as well as at their Quick Lube location next door. Each time I have, I get a cleaned car when they are done. read more

Best experience ever buying a car if you go ask for Terry, quick no pressure,great deal on trade got just what we wanted and more

Extremely unhappy with the way they do business. I bought a used truck from them. They said that they would do whatever is takes to fix the truck and that they would make it right. So we did the deal, they fixed one of the two issues. I brought the truck back after the second issue didn't get fixed, they "fixed" the issue again and no sooner than pulling back in my driveway the codes were back. Now they say there is nothing more they can do for me. They did not keep their word. I WILL NOT buy anything else from this dealership!!! read more

This place is a joke. They've wasted our time on several occasions, had our van for almost a week (twice) and can't figure out what's wrong in the steering column, they guessed on the last repair. Going to a real mechanic in Naperville. The Quick Lane here is awful too, completely inept, jerry rigged repair. NEVER AGAIN ! read more

2010 Black Ford Flex. After having an unsatisfactory experience with our sales person, Tom and the service staff did everything they could to make it right. Replacing things that should have not been broken when the car was sold as well as a few little extras. If it wasn't for Tom we probably would have returned the car. The guys at the quick lube were very friendly and helpful and so was the parts guy. Overall a bad situation was turned into a good one. read more

Great experience, called from chicago and asked to get qualified before I came in. No haggle no fuse, they did exactly that. They priced the vehicle to sell and I was excited to buy. F350 thanks izzy and staff. You guys have earned my life time business. read more

Bought two cars from here and ready to get a lease. Mike Allison is our sales person. Has always bent over backwards to assist us in any way possible. Never a hard sale and absolutely knows his numbers. We travel 1-1/2 hr to get here and have always been treated with respect. read more

Great Service! Rick helped me to get a MUCH NEEDED new car. He also explained everything and was very patient through the whole process. Everyone there is great, and I was able to get a 2015 Ford Focus. Thank you all so much for your help! I will definitely be back to purchase again! read more