Buyer beware. I 'purchased' a car on Friday and was told it would be detailed and ready Sunday. I offered a deposit and they said not necessary. As I was driving to collect my new car I was called and told it had been sold to someone else. Talk about gross incompetence! And to compound matters the managers couldn't care less. No attempt to fix their mistake with appropriate customer service. Worst dealership I have encountered read more

I brought my car in for brake replacement and 75k service. The service advisor said it's a BIG service and Audi care would save me $300. So I paid $1100 for oil change, filter replacement and fluids topped off. What a rip off! Oh yeah, and even though they said my brakes needed replacement they didn't do it and it's not covered under Audi care!! read more

After doing research and talking to numerous dealers, I can say that I had a great experience with my first lease at Audi Marin. I was connected with Ozzy first via email who was confident in helping me get the best deal and beat any offer I have. When I called to ask about further details, he was quick to respond and genuinely wanted to help me find the exact car type I wanted and confirmed on being able to help me on the pricing before I decided to go in person, all within 1/2 hr of closing for the night. He was able to secure the car the next morning for me and give me a great deal as promised. On the day of pick-up, though we got a late start, Ozzy still did a thorough walk through of the car details and went over all questions I had on the lease terms, even staying past closing hours to ensure everything was good to go. Brad the Finance Manager was also very kind and patient in going over the paperwork details and redoing after I decided to get the lease end protection last minute. All in all appreciate being able to find the car I wanted so efficiently and with great service! read more

I was in the market for a new car and even though it was not an Audi I was looking for , this dealership had the one car I was looking at (subaru WRX) my sales rep was Max Sheikh. I originally went to Subaru of Marin to buy the same vehicle but 2 years older and was put off immediately as they would not let anyone test drive that vehicle saying it was because the type of car it is lol. I was in shock to say the least, not to mention the price was way off. Audi of marin had a 2017 with 25k less miles for the same price and I was able to test drive it. great staff and easy check out. Thank you read more

Just came in for a test drive on a TT. Ricky was beyond helpful. I was honest with him about how I felt about the TT and he let me drive it regardless of the late hour. So patient and never pushy! I'll definitely be purchasing my next Audi from him, such a joy to work with! Car buying should be simple, and he made just the introduction a reason for me to go back. Thank you!! read more

Just bought a certified car from Myles at Audi Marin. Very painless, pleasant and efficient experience. He was knowledgeable, the staff was welcoming and we didn't need to go back and forth on the price. I drove up from San Francisco after having some bad experiences in the city. Great dealer and great staff. read more

I just bought a pre-owned Audi Q5 from Audi Marin and Sonnen Motorcars and had a GREAT experience. I shopped very carefully for several months, and was looking for a specific year for a specific price, in a specific condition. I had the pleasure of working closely with Myles Saffian, a Brand Specialist with Sonnen at Audi Marin. I live in Santa Cruz, and the best deals on the car I was looking at seemed to be from Sonnen and another place in Concord. Myles helped me with 2 listings that came up over a couple of months, remotely. The service I received from him was excellent. Throughout the process Myles was reachable day and night (though I'm not sure this was necessary). He drove both cars to the repair shop where I chose to have the pre-purchase inspections. He kept me up-to-date on the progress, and handled everything efficiently and quickly. Because I was 'shopping' from afar, the negotiation was done over the phone, and paperwork was sent to my home for review. By the time I drove up to inspect the car in person there wasn't much left to do. Not only did Myles have it detailed and ready to go, he added in some extra touches, such as a personalized "Congratulations" sign, which made the whole experience super fun. By the time I drove off in my 'new' car, I had met and talked to the head of the service department about the repair, received a full instructional tour of my new car, and of course, took it for a fun test drive. I don't know about the other reviews...just work with Myles Saffian. You'll be in great hands! read more

Very good dealership, very friendly, useful and quick in doing paper work and car handling. Especially I want to mention Omar Zidouh who is a great sale person. His help was invaluable. Now I'm a happy owner of my new Audi. read more

6 star review for our purchasing experience with Neil R. at Audi Marin. Came in a week ago to purchase a used Audi from Audi Marin. We knew what we wanted but was looking for the right price. Neil was more than wonderful in terms of customer service, knowledge, and attitude. Neil was very easy to talk to and connect with. Neil also answered every question that we had. Purchasing a car is usually anything but enjoyable, however, Neil's sense of humor eased the car buying experience and made it almost enjoyable. There was absolutely zero pressure during the entire experience. If you are looking to purchase a new or used Audi, Neil at Audi Marin would be an excellent place to start. Can't forget Don B, the finance manager. He was a pleasure to work with - very knowledgeable and patiently worked with us to find a plan that we were comfortable with. Again, no pressure there. Thank you Neil and Don! Looking forward to purchasing a new Audi in December. Best, Jackson read more

Who likes being bombarded with sales people the minute you walk in? Who has no money concerns? Who wants to spend their entire day making 1 purchase? If you answered not me, then this is the place for you! I was only asked 1 time if I needed help and when I said not yet, I was left alone! Shocking I know!!! When I was ready Jeff was great!!! While shopping for a new car is stressful, he made it go ok. This is a must stop if you are car shopping. And P.S. they don't just have Audi's!!! read more

Zac Fitzgerald was a superlative sales person at Audi Marin. We already own an ETRON but we needed a second car. We had a scant amount of time to find one and Zac not only found us the perfect Q5 but also found it in record time. He was efficient, professional and extremely well-informed. The entire process was a breeze, and we certainly will buy the next car at Audi Marin. read more

I've been to five or six Audi dealerships over the past few weeks and Audi Marin was by far my worst experience. The Inventory: Audi Marin already has limited parking due to lot size. They make up for this by creating customer parking underneath the dealership. Unfortunately, every parking space at the dealership, both underneath and outside, was double and triple stacked with new and used cars. The salesman we worked with, Jason, as well as several of his colleagues and even a manager, had no idea what inventory they did and didn't have. Once they did confirm a vehicle was in their current inventory it took them upwards of 20 minutes to find it buried in the lot. They simply had too much inventory to deal with. Most of the cars listed online are actually there, some aren't; and some of the cars that are there aren't listed online. Regardless, we didn't get a chance to test drive anything in Marin because none of the cars I called about two days in advance were cleaned, sanitized, or ready for my arrival. The Prices: I was only looking at CPO Q5 and S5's, but everything I looked at in Marin was underspec'd and overpriced. For example, the Premium Plus Q5 we ended up purchasing from Audi Concord was spec'd $3k above the Premium Plus Q5 we were shown at Marin, but priced $2k under. Our salesman, Jason: Based on his tone and verbiage, I could tell Jason was a jerk from the first time I talked to him on the phone. Given that it was a phone call, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but it turns out I was correct. Not once did he direct questions or answers to my girlfriend, only to me, even after telling him the car was for her. He knew very little about what vehicles were in the inventory, and very little about the individual vehicles themselves. We quickly realized that we didn't want to waste anymore of our time there and told Jason that we appreciated his time but were going look elsewhere. He scoffed at us while typing on his computer and pointed to the door, didn't even get out of his seat to watch it hit us in the bum on the way out. read more

They have really good service here, however they are really slow and backed up, sometimes for about a month before you can get your car in for service. They need to do something about that. You may not be able to wait a month for a repair. They also don't have enough loaner cars, which hurts people who live further away, as this may be still the closest Audi repair. Audis are great cars, but I think people have to consider service timelines when buying a car. I would not be surprised if people chose not to buy an Audi because they know they have to wait a month or more for service sometimes. What are we supposed to do - buy two cars for when one is waiting to get in the shop? read more

Just picked up an Audi from Marin. At first, I arranged a time to pick up the car with the sales man (1 1/2 hour drive) and his manager said that the car had been sold already. I guess people can make mistake...so I let it slide. They shipped another car from different state to make it up (one star for an effort). When I signed the sales agreement and wrote a check, I found two mistakes on their paper work, wrong insurance info and higher sales price. Again people can make mistake and they eventually corrected them. So I asked the guy, what happens to the insurance when I drive back home tonight?...I don't know if he was embarrassed of the mistake or not...his answer was..well I don't know. You deal with it yourself with your insurance(Really?). They also asked me ssn number and did my credit check behind my back. It may be a typical procedure prior to accepting a personal check. But it would have been much nicer to inform your clients ahead of time rather than the day of purchase. Whether buying $10k car or $100k car (I have experienced both), don't you realize being honest and nice to your clients can lead to so much more to your business? Referral to my doctor friends and maybe I would get a second car from you...who knows? Btw the guy who took my check tried to hard sell on extra maintenance coverage, when I declined it, again, made another sarcastic remark...oh, so you just pass the offer like basket ball, huh? Finally I pointed out the sales man it was missing a part from trunk several times during final inspection, sales man said, all the other same Audi models do not have the feature. Guess what? When I asked Audi Palo Alto, all of their cars have the feature. I asked Audi Marin for the part and will have to see if they get shipped. Maybe I was treated that way since I was wearing jean, sneaker and shirt. Next time I will wear my surgery scrub to be treated different? Hope my comment can make differences in your customer care. And please educate your employee about the car. Sales man has less knowledge about the feature on the model than me. read more

Worst dealership I have ever been to. Internet sales manager David is such a professional that he can text message on his phone the entire time you are speaking to him whether you are at his desk and even while you are test driving. Quite the multitask-er and also unfriendly. But rest assured he has been there for 13 years and will tell you all about it with extreme confidence or cockiness. Much more the latter. Then when he leaves to go run reports he never returns so it's safe to assume he's doing so many other things he doesn't have time to finish the deal with you. Rod the general sales manager however takes the cake. He sets a precedence right off the bat with his plaid suit that he is there to tell you how it's going to be and not to question his authority. Make sure you don't use the term "low-ball" or he flips out, slams his hands on the table, and storms out. I can only dream to one day engage in another conversation with him. Honestly the worst people in the business but because they have a lot of inventory and move a lot of vehicles they feel they can treat you however they like... apparently. Do yourself a favor and go to Audi in San Francisco which is where I will be purchasing my new Audi. They treat you with respect and will try their best so that both parties leave feeling satisfied and happy. read more

Ricky and the entire team at Audi Marin were amazing to work with. I've never leased a car before and he made the entire experience painless and stayed within my budget. Thank you so much -- I drive home with my dream car read more

Saw a used 2015 Mazda 5 online at Audi Marin, stopped by and talked to a sales person Ricky Quintana. He is very knowledgeable in his craft and well likeable. He presented me with all the necessary facts pertaining to the vehicle and then let me drive around the area. The next part is the dreaded negotiating. To my surprise, we came to a quick agreement, and by the end of our conversation, I own a new used car. A very easy transaction due to a great sales person named Ricky Quintana. Need a new car, please see Ricky! A satisfied customer, Johnny J. read more

As a first time buyer, I was of course nervous about going to a dealership to buy a new car. However both Ricky and Omar were wonderful to work with and made the process quick and easy! Love my new q5 and would highly recommend checking this place out if you're in the market for an Audi! read more

I bought a used car from Audi Marin a few days ago. I saw it on their lot and just walked in - Donald was polite and very helpful - zero pressure. The sales manager, Mo was easy to work with and in three hours I left with my new car. I got a very good deal, traded in my old car and Donald delivered my new car to Napa later that evening. If you want to avoid the classic car buying stress, I recommend these two good guys. read more

After searching for a long time, I finally got the audi Q5 I want! Thanks to Ricky for helping me to find such a great deal. He is nice and patient guy to talk to. read more

Dear Audi of Marin. I want to buy a car you have. It is used. I have been by and test driven it. And oh yeah you guys are having a hard time selling this particular used vehicle. I have been calling and emailing and yet continue to find myself puzzled why a member of a sales team does not want to get back to me. Did you guys change your business model and get out of car sales? If so please let me know. Sincerely, A current Audi owner who is looking to trade up but ashamed of being ever associated with this dealership. read more

Just got a new vehicle from Amal and Audi Marin. Wonderful service that was quick and courteous--unlike my other experiences with "good cop / bad cop" car salespersons. I would highly recommend Amal and the dealership in Marin. First class! read more

WOW! I am converted to AUDI. By, by Lexus The Bad: 1: Very confusing parking, after a few laps around the building I figured out the parking was actually under the building. 2: The sign for the parking was very tiny, nearly invisible 3: The lounge area while you wait, well it SUCKS compared to Lexus. 4: The show room is on the second floor, Long stairs up and down they do offer an elevator but It was slow and I am impatient. THE GOOD: 1: I have been a Lexus man since 2008 took my first look at AUDI's I was completely blown away. I was speechless the quality was simply stunning... 2: I looked at the LS460 F Sport and the second I sat in it, I knew right away the quality wasn't nearly as good as the Audi. This really surprised me? Its hard to say other then everything you touched in the AUDI was tactically touch perfect. The Lexus all of a sudden seemed cheap to me! WTF? 3: I looked at the A8 to compare to the LS460 truthfully both were very nice but the AUDI simply was the superior of the two. Unfortunately I didn't get the A8, Dammit! Because I kept looking over my sales mans shoulder at this one car on the show floor it was an A7 and I swear it whispered to me and said... Psssttt, why are you looking at that A8 you know you want me. I then said to my sales man, ummm John? "aka my other name for John is AWESOME" I said in my best curious but not interested voice. What's that pointing with a slight flick of the finger in a cautivsious and suspicious way... He said that's the A7 I thought I heard a slight echo. Dammmmmm, that's a sexy car! Enough bragging, yes I bought it! It did speak to me after all. 4: I generally trust car sales people, like I do corral snakes. I usually walk in a dealership and hear the whistling sound to a B rated gunslinger western. Followed by tumbleweed rolling by. But not this time? No creepy stalker type sales people. Here comes John. Warm down to earth smile and no gun slinger whistle.. hmmm? 5: John, Nice, polite, overly courteous, almost to a fault. Product knowledge A+ We drove a few cars around and like I said, I came in for one thing and left with something completely different. We haggled on price. I cant believe I am going to say this but I am a hard core haggler, I am certain in a past life I was the three most major haggler nationality's on earth. 6: Price, I don't BS and my YELPS are not for sale. Check my yelp history I tear business up for the sport of it. My slogan "I say it, Like it is" I found Sonnen Audi of Marin to be aggressive about selling there cars but in a good way, offering a fair sales price but in the end I didn't get a good deal, I got a FRICKEN AWESOME DEAL! I did mention I was a yelper? That's is part of my arsenal of tools of course, lol. They knew what YELP was lol.... Mmmhhhmmmmm that's right... now give me a good deal. Bottom Line: I test-drove BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc all in equal comparisons according to car and driver magazine, which by the way they choose AUDI as the number #1 top pick. No question about it, I am now an Audi Man and I finally totally get it. The technology is mind blowing, the ride smooth, silky, very powerful and sporty. You have to experience it to believe it. Special note: I went in knowing I would have a 3.9% finance rate, Mike who deserves special mention, Unbelievably got me financed at 1.79% by, by Lexus.. Hello Sonnen Audi, you are now my BFF!!! read more

I'm ONLY basing this on internet sales. My wife wants an Audi. She doesn't know which one. She asked me to set up some test drives. I'm the car guy. I've honestly probably bought 25 cars in the last 20+ years. Cool....I LOVE car shopping. But I HATE the phone, and the dealership. I usually work out all the details through emails, then show up. I've bought at least eight cars online (mostly BMWs from Sonnen, or old trucks off eBay or Craig's). Lots of emails and questions, then a ten minute test drive and we're done. Admittedly, I've done this for a loooooong time and it's gotten better as the internet sales guys have realized that some of us really DO buy cars online. Sight unseen. Hate the phone, but know what to ask, and have the funds to complete it. The problem with a lot of dealers is that they give the brand new guys the internet inquiries. Marin Audi hasn't figured it out. I kept sending requests to set up test drives for my wife. I said, "I'm emailing because that's my preferred way of contact. When you confirm you have in stock all three cars I want to drive, I'll give you my wife's phone number to set it up." I thought this made perfect sense. Every email I received in response requested to call me. Requested my cell number. I'd reply, well... Do you have the cars I want to drive? And I would RE-state the cars I wanted to drive....no response. Finally I got an email stating that my wife had recently driven the Q7 and did I have questions? My wife had never been there and to date hasn't driven a Q7. As a comparison, I emailed another Local dealer. Same request: drive the A3 wagon, Q5, Q7. Email me please. In less than 18 hours it was all set up. So, this dealership may be great if you walk in the door, but they have a lot to learn when it comes to internet sales. The fact that they are my local dealership, a short ten minute drive from my house, necessitates a one star rating. read more

I picked up an A8 rental from downstairs where it is dark and cannot see scratches. (Beware of this process) Only went home with it, when I returned it the Service Director said I had an accident and made me pay $3,800 for the damages. I filed my insurance and paid the $1,000 deductible. Based on ethical principles, I will never service my Audi vehicles there again. They have lost a customer for life and they do not really care . You should think twice before servicing your car there. I guess the Business Manager is paid to scan reviews and to justify why customers are not happy. I have not even thought about bringing my A8 or my new A6 to this dealer. Even if the car brings down nearby I will pay extra to tow it somewhere else. I actually rate them a zero star. It is very funny, the service director called reminding me about servicing my car. They do not know when a customer is actually upset at them. I have not and will not every service my 3 Audi at Audi Marin. They have lost me as a customer for life. read more

We recently finalized our lease of a 2019 Q3 with Audi of Marin. Ricky Quintana was our salesperson. Fantastic experience start to finish. No pressure so grateful! We were interested in an Audi, Q5 or Q3. We visited three dealerships - Oakland, Concord and Marin. We continued communication with Marin, because of Ricky's communication with us. Ricky was on it when a 2019 Q3 arrived and we could test drive. Done deal, want. He helped snag a Q3 that was arriving to another dealer. When there was a delay between the signing of the lease and the Q3's arrival, they gave a this-for-that that was generous and appreciated. When the Q3 arrived it was complete with a bow! Ricky walked us through all the finer points to get us running, and we're confident he will be there when we need... Also super customer service from Brad in Finance. read more

Buying a new car is never an easy thing especially when you are in between 2 kinds and don't know what direction to go in. Originally I was looking at the Acura ILX and had fallen in love with it, but then I saw the Q5 my dad just bought (from a different dealership) and knew that I had to check out an Audi. I looked at a couple of dealerships and had some other options, and when I walked into Marin Audi, I truly had no intention to "Buy" a car. I figured that I would look around, see some cars, get some options and move on with my day. I found myself with a great salesperson Alex who was professional, helpful and willing to help me find the car that was right for me. I am in awe of the beautiful A3 that I just got and I look forward to driving and experiencing a lot with it. Thank you to Alex and Marin Audi for your help and support! read more

I have to give a bad rating for two simple reasons: a) They constantly spam Craigslist with their cars b) They actually still play the bait and switch game! (ridiculously priced vehicles that even the show floor sales guy is unaware of). The actual sales people there seem decent enough. They simply need to fire their internet team. read more

Beware what Audi Marin promises. In July 2019 I purchased an A4 through the Costco Rebate program. The sales rep assured me that I would receive the $500 rebate for the 2019 model year. When it didn't arrive the sales rep continued to assure me, in writing, that it was on it's way. I finally got Costco involved and they told me that Audi was wrong and I would not receive the rebate for the 2019. The sales manager told me that I should be happy I got a good deal on the 2019 and they would to nothing to honor the misleading promise by the sales rep. read more

This review is for the service department but specifically Anthony. This guy went above and beyond to help me and my lemon of an older Audi. He stayed afterwards, kept me in the loop thru it all, really helped me in a pinch when my other experiences with other cars and service dept were take it or leave it. I appreciate his empathy and aid during a tough time on all fronts. It is the little things like his vibe and help that matter. So thanks Anthony for a job well done! read more

Quality service and excellent follow through on every detail. I have called and gotten my car in right away along with a free loaner car since I am not local. Highly Recommend ! read more

I felt the discrimination here. My wife and I were walking around looking at the cars, security stopped us asked us what we needed (obviously we weren't here for the free coffee). He escorted us to the sales floor and asked someone to help us...after sitting around for 25 minutes watching the salesmen text and chat away we decided to just leave. read more

This is a review specifically for the service department. Audi of Marin's service has brought me to leave this review even during this climate of COVID and everything else considered. Never in the past couple of years of owning a vehicle was a treated with such negligence and lack of respect that I will never step foot near that place again. This was the second time that I brought in my B9 S4 for pre sense related issues (ever since new has been stopping randomly whilst backing up etc.) first time they blamed it on the front sensors not being properly reconnected after having the bumper repainted (something they should've just taken care of as courtesy at that time) after getting the car back, the issues persisted and I eventually scheduled another appointment. This time with a loaner in case it took too long. Upon arrival, no one was interested in talking to me, and Gary's (one of the service reps) first question was "did you get it fixed?" Upon explaining that the issue had nothing to do with the front and that the back was acting up, they tried to explain to me that it all was affected, when previously saying that just the front acting up. Having a software background I know that sensors initially work independently and then synced together to create one big picture. Also, after me explaining that ok fine, even if it's a software glitch and it happens 1 in 100 times then maybe it really is that, but when it's happening every other time then there's an issue. Upon hearing this one of the other service reps exclaimed "oh my car does it all the time! Look in the handbook it's in there! It's just Audi presence" seriously not a good thing to say in front of other customers. Upon realising that I wasn't 21, they refused to give me a loaner, talk about other options or figure out an alternative solution to this. Given all of this; just because someone is young, don't treat them like complete crap and expect to not hear something about it. Just like any other Audi customer I deserved the decency of good customer service and this isn't even close to what was provided here. After telling some friends about the story they also told some not so pleasant thing about the dealer (read David Karvasales' review below). Anyways, completely unprofessional and will rip you off if given the chance, as a business owner myself it's sad to see places like this that continue running and screwing with people. That's all. read more

Ask for Jason Arnold. I flew up to SF from Southern California just to buy an A7 from him. Hassle free and loyal to his word. Thanks Jason! read more

They are terrible as far as repairs go! Gary is terrific, Dan (the service manager) is not to be trusted... For one thing, they work on commission... So they "recommend" service that often is not needed... or if it's close, they just tell you to get the work done... I contacted Audi national (I was so upset) was told I had a strong case (14 pages of documents) I asked Dan (the service manager) to meet with me.... He said it's out of my hands, I have no say in this matter... Ok some 6 weeks later (after many phone calls to Audi national) I was told "they" decided I had no case.... I asked "How did you decide I had no case? Oh, we called Dan THE SERVICE MANAGER I TRIED TO TALK TO! Oh my I started to go to small claims court, too much stress... BEWARE MARIN.....GET A CHEAPER CAR , AND MAKE A DONATION TO CHARITY..... read more

Had a great experience at Audi Marin with ozzy!! We had a terrible experience at two other dealerships earlier in the day and were not disappointed with Audi of Marin. Everyone was very nice and helped us complete our paperwork quickly since we were there with our new baby! read more

Not only do they not have loaner cars but I have been waiting well over a month for a recalled part to come in. They told me would be less then a month when I called... so when my airbag deploys and metal flys in my face you guys will be ready for that lawsuit correct? read more

Got our first Audi. Such a pleasant buying experience. Were test driving mid size cross overs - RX/NX, X5, GL, and Q5. Liked the Q5 a lot but were sold when working with the team at Audi Marin. They were very accommodating from understanding our needs to laying off the pressure and letting us complete multiple test drives. Our salesperson Omar was very knowledgeable of the car and support from Audi. We wanted a set of options that was not off their lot and they found it for us in 1 day. He answered all our questions quickly and made an appointment to close the sale. We also worked with the GM Rod. He was a pro and a pleasure to speak with, setting everything up to have the car brought up to Marin. We have the prepaid service package so will be back for all services for the next 4-5 years. Very excited about our Q5 and the relationship with Marin Audi! read more

This review is based on my experience with David Mehtabuddin. My wife and I recently purchased a used vehicle through David. Throughout the experience, David was extremely professional. Although we didn't purchase an Audi, he was well educated in all things having to do with our "new" ride. Buying a car should be painless. Both sides should feel that they came away with a good deal. I believe that's what happened here. read more

Audi Marin - Our "new" used ride from Sonnen Audi Marin. - Auto Repair Near Me - San Rafael, California

I purchased my Audi a few years ago from Nathan Proctor who was just amazing, and I have had my car serviced there every since. The service department is also exceptional. Gary Poarch is caring and concerned with all aspects of service and knows what he is talking about. Ricky Quintana is also great and is someone who goes beyond when it comes to caring for Audi's customers. Last Saturday I stopped by to grab a quart of oil to keep in my car, because when the oil light comes on rather than having to interrupt my travels I keep an extra quart in the car. Even though the service department had closed for the weekend, Ricky located a quart for me and provided it to me with a gracious smile, at no charge. I can't imagine ever taking my car for service anywhere but Marin Audi--and when the time comes, I will be buying my next Audi there! read more