Wow, our lives have completely turned around! Our skin feels amazing, and our coffee tastes fantastic. We had a consultation with Eric, who was super genuine and clearly explained how their system could help us. We ended up getting a water refinement and reverse osmosis system installed by Jonathan. He did an awesome job and was very professional. Jonathan went above and beyond. He noticed a leak in our faucet, told us about it, and came back the next day to install a new kitchen and bathroom faucet for free. The price is great too. We shopped around and researched these systems, and Fidelis offers top-of-the-line products. These aren't your average water softeners--they're the Cadillac of softeners, with a lifetime warranty! Fidelis has been incredible to us. Highly recommend them! read more

Apparently they advertise by putting a "Final Notice" of parcel hold in your mailbox, which makes you think they are the post office. Then when you call, they are rude to you and act like you wasted their time if you don't let them give you their allegedly free gift and water test. This makes no sense. If they just sent a normal advertisement, I might use them in the future. But I would never use a business whose first interaction with me is a postcard like this with no name or address even on it. read more

This company is not available to pick up phone calls, there are two numbers listed online and only one rings. It WILL send you to a vm and no one will call back. Ive been waiting for a response and have left numerous voicemails. Been a customer since 2020. They changed banks once, and that's the only communication I've had. read more

Fidelis plumbing is not a very creditable business and I would not waste your time or money with them they went out of business over a year left other customers and as well as myself without service and when the resurfaced the had a new name and new policies and would not honor the work they had done or the product because of the change of companies Fidelis Elite is not a credible company rip-offs don't do business bad experience with them personally. read more

I purchased a water filtration system when I purchased my condo in 2022. A year later the valve burst under my sink & flooded my kitchen & sink. They took no responsibility for floor damage and I was out $500 on a homeowner insurance claim that remains in subrogation. I had to replace my kitchen and dining room floors due to faulty part on Fidelis system. When I called in July to report the problem, they sent a plumber who said the fidelis pump burst which flooded under my kitchen sink & kitchen tiles & dining room wood floors. If you call the number they answer the phone Fidelis Elite Systems then tell you they didn't install your system because Fidelis Plumbing did. There is zero service available for a $8000 water filtration system. I am stuck paying a loan for a system that has cost me so much time & money and a new owner who could not care less about restitution or servicing the clients they purchased from Fidelis Plumbing. The attorney does not return phone calls. Fidelis Elite Systems says Fidelis Plumbing filed bankruptcy & the owner skipped town. All I know is don't buy from Fidelis. Find a reputable water purification system with good service & warranty. I have a warranty which matters not and the new owner does not care for customers. My water pressure has been low in the kitchen and my handyman said the Fidelis plumber needs to fix the pressure bc the issue is with Fidelis. Fidelis Elite Systems says they will send a plumber at a cost of $175. DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE. read more

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Fidelis plumbing is a scam! The didn't install the system as described...now it is breaking, overflowing, and eroding our yard. They refuse to come fix the system as outlined in the contract and will only come to fix it if I spend an additional $289. Don't waste your money with this crappy company! read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

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They send out these stupid pink post cards saying "This office is attempting to reach you to deliver a parcel. Final notice." I call and find out it's a stupid marketing scam from Fidelis Plumbing to come out and test your water and air quality. When I told them it was a brand new house with a seven stage water filtration system...they still wanted to push the issue about checking it for free anyway. No thanks. That's not how you earn my business by tricking me into thinking I missed a package. If you're a legitimate company, why isn't your business name ANYWHERE on the post card. Very deceiving and poor business practices, if you ask me. As you can see from their response, they just prove my point as stated above. If they were a reputable company, they wouldn't have to trick people into thinking they missed a package. You don't have a package for me because I have no reason to contact your company. You missed lead me into believing I missed a package so I would call and you could try to make a sale for your business. If you were a reputable company, you wouldn't have to trick people. A reputable company puts their name on their advertising to state who they are and what they offer. Again, this is poor business practices and trying to drum up business from someone who otherwise probably wouldn't call you in the first place. I have forwarded this to the consumer Division of the Attorney General's office for further review. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Scam post card - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

Purchased a water softener, RO drinking system and a washing machine thing. Sold me on a bill of lifetime warranty stuff and service and now they pulled out of my city and needing to find someone to service this stuff now. If they still exist in San Antonio I would highly recommend NOT purchasing anything from them. They may not be there to back it up. If I need anything done to this crap I have to do it now on my own. Pretty much sucks. I had to get new filters once and thought I had someone to fix it until I finally tracked someone down with them who sold them to me and shipped them to me and I had to replace them myself. I don't buy a DYI system but that is what I got. read more

Shady con artists , why would anyone fall for this scam They collect your information after trying to c"claim" your package. read more

Horrible. Water softener did soften the water by a tan but but not as they promised. Water comes out foggy every now and then. I travel for work so I wasn't here upon completion of the job. Gerardo (sales) forced my GF to sign off on the completion. (They can't send me a copy because they "don't have it") Even if I'm paying 10k I have no saying at where it will be I was told it was going to be in the garage but they put it outside my bedroom window where I could hear it every night. And will move it for a 800$ charge. The RO unfolded the sink wasn't installed properly wear it was leaking the bottom board got damp and the weight made it bend and they will also not move that. They promised clear ice but but snuck it in the contract that they didn't do it and because we signed on it they'll do it for a charge. We do no not want the service. It was over promised and that does not do any of the functions promised it does soften the water but just a tad bit compared to the city water. They have came out and all they done is add salt. Which I have currently done because they told me only once a year and I've done it five times with in 8 months. The sales guy Gerardo does not answer any calls after promising during the sale he will be the point of contact. I do not want him back in my house but I do need to reach out to someone and they just tell me to call customer service where they say they'll send an email. Hadim told me if it doesn't work out we could return it but after contacting the financial department they sold the contract to all they had to do is buy it back and of course they didn't and still won't. Sold something I'm not receiving and use "the contract" for everything. The back says you have 3 days to return it but it took them about two months to fully install it. They also gave me a sink Fossett that is horrible and does not work for my kitchen. Horrible and shameful they say it's a " veteran owned company" when he's not even involved in this horrible plunking scam. Please avoid. read more

Hello, yes the marketing campaign can seem deceptive. Especially in today's society where scams are plentiful and tend to steal good people's money. This is not the case with Fidelis plumbing. I accepted the offer. Russ, your Fidelis rep (sales/frontline), was cool, patient, and seems like a good person. What we discussed is exactly what was done. In other words, Fidelis met their deliverables. Yeah, the crew could have done a better job at clean up but overall they did what we asked and we're happy. P.S. Still waiting for the Pure and Gentle products (emailed the support team and the 3rd party directly). For those who question water quality check out this article recently published on the SA Current - https://www.sacurrent.com/news/chemical-treatment-of-san-antonios-drinking-water-has-health-risks-including-cancer-30239608 . read more

I called the number to this postcard 1st mistake! The person asked for the parcel number and said they are doing a free water, mold inspection for new homeowners. We already had this done when we purchased the home. I asked her the name of her company and where they are located as it doesn't mention it on the card. She did not want to give me the address her reason was because she's working from home and does not have the company's address she is working for can't remember off the top of her head. I told her let me get this right the company that pays you and that you work for - YOU do not know it and are asking me to Google it! Goodbye! read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Don't call... - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

The salesman was great. But the system they were trying to sell me was 2x the cost of other systems. So i said no, and then the guy puts his manager on the phone to maybe do a deal, but instead of working with me the manager proceeds to berate me and try to shame me into buying. They said they would email me a gift card for entertaining them and guess what... never got it. I've had there stupid postcard on my desk for 3 months and was not going to throw it away until i wrote this review. read more

These guys are super shady! They sent out multiple shady looking postcards stating that they have a parcel. The postcard claims It's their "final attempt to reach you", and that I "must call the number immediately to arrange for delivery". I figured it was a scam. I enjoy messing with scammers, so I decided to call them. On the phone, the lady said that they work with my builder (I just moved into a new build a few weeks ago) and they have a welcome package for me with a $25 amazon gift card included. I was very clear when I asked her if this was just a sales pitch in disguise. She said it wasn't. A few days later, someone calls me to arrange a guy to come over and perform a "water inspection". Again, I ask the guy on the phone if this is a sales pitch, and if it is, I'm not interested. He said it wasn't. Later on, a salesman shows up at my door with his giant suitcase. *eyeroll* He seemed very disappointed when I told him I'm not interested in buying anything. I bet Fidelis would get more business if they didn't have such shady marketing tactics. Just be honest and up front and I won't waste your time. read more

I moved to Austin about a month ago, and have had several packages shipped to my house to furnish my home. When I received a blue slip that resembled a Post Office package slip, I didn't think twice that this slip was for an actual package I had to pick up at the post office. I took the slip that read "Parcel, final notice" to the post office where I was informed this slip was not from them and to call the number that was on the slip. Fishy, but the slip said I had a package delivery that I missed, so I dialed the number, in good faith that I would be able to retrieve some package. The person who answered the phone worked with me to find a time that I would be home to receive the package. She said the package was a "welcome gift from the community" containing a water quality test as well as a gift card to my choice among Olive Garden, Chili's, and Red Lobster. Thinking that this was an actual "gift from the community," I scheduled a time. I did have the gumption to ask the person on the phone what company was delivering the package. I had to ask the woman on the phone to repeat the company name three times because she said it so fast that I could not register it. I figured this was intentional, but didn't think much of it. I hung up and awaited my package arrival in the next few days. The agreed upon date and time arrived. The doorbell rang. A well-to-do man with a leather suitcase was at the door. He came into the house and took his shoes off (I do not recall inviting him in). He asked where my husband was. My husband was actually sitting on the can in the master bathroom, taking a dump. The man with the suitcase informed me that we could not proceed with the water test unless my husband was there with me. I don't know why I didn't question him on this. I should not have run to the master bedroom, knocked on the bathroom door, and insist that my husband come out... but I did. Now, my husband is a former salesperson himself. He has a nose to smell out shady sales tactics. When he saw the man with the suitcase, he knew something was up. He became cold and unwelcoming as the man with the suitcase made his way over the kitchen, moving stuff around by the sink to start the water test. I did not know what was happening. Luckily, my husband was giving off a very negative vibe, which the salesman clearly felt. The salesman said that he could go home or come back at another time, no problem. I was grateful he had the decency to suggest that he could leave. Because of this, I asked the salesman how long the water test would be. "35-40 minutes," he said! THAT IS A LONG ASS TIME! How dare this company send someone over to my house to come in and spend almost an hour on a sales demo, in which BOTH me and my husband were required to be present? This is just asinine. I told him to leave. If it was a 5-minute demo, I would have stood for it. Finally, on the salesman's way out, my husband decided to be nice and ask if he had a brochure for whatever the hell he was trying to sell. He said he is only allowed to give out the brochure after the sales demo. I was lucky to catch the name of the company, Fidelis, on the folder he was holding, so I could look them up. And that was when I realized why the lady on the phone said the name of the company so fast. I would have researched them and realized they were a scam immediately. I cannot believe the audacity of this company. Whether or not they have a decent product, I don't care. If I have a water quality problem, I will find another company that does not dupe potential customers. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - The slip that arrived in my mailbox. I wasted my time going to the post office to retrieve a package. - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

Want to over pay for a system go with them. (Yes, it was my fault and should've done my research) They sent some a dude to do some 2nd grade science and show you how bad the water at your home is. I called them back bc I wanted to know the alkaline level of my water and failed to give me an answer, saying it will take days for all the water to be completely filter. They want to charge 130 for filter replacements but wait... it doesn't include the alkaline one, funny how they never mentioned it didn't include that one. Also, when I called to return the filters I was told, "well just so you know, our system is not compatible with any other filters, is proprietary" For $80 dollars you can get all filters replaced. I went ahead and changed the whole system myself for a tankless. It was super easy bc all hoses are universal. I paid $268 for the new system, got it on Amazon. read more

Honestly if I could tell people not to get this water softener I would, can't wait till it's paid off. They hound us for payments (when we pay as close to the date as we can but with covid and one of us losing our jobs, I got 0 help, just a "so are You going to schedule a payment or not" I know it's the credit bs and not the company themselves but the company themselves deals with a shitty credit place. Again if I could give 0 stars I would. The guys i had praised, never answer our calls when we have questions or need help troubleshooting. Lesson learned though. Also I know every experience is different and y'all try to relate it to everyday things but sometimes a simple "I understand" is better than getting mansplained ‍ read more

I haven't used this company to purchase anything, but I have received a postcard that does NOT have their company Information, just saying 'claim your parcel' which I knew immediately was a scam. For the company to say they give you a 'gift of a free estimate, etc' is scamming. With no company on the postcard. This will definitely scam elderly people., as well as people who are expecting a package. At least have the decency to write the company name. read more

I received two postcards in the mail claiming "2nd notice!" "Final notice!" I didn't receive a first notice! lol. obviously a super shady company, just adding my two cents to the growing list of complaints about this sad excuse for a business. read more

Soooo glad i read the reviews before having them finish the installation, i just wanted the 25$ gift card that they promised.... But they have to do a test of your water first which was ok with me.... After 3.5 hours of demonstrations the guy gave us a price that started out at 160/ month for 7.5 years... Then he gave us a special discount of 130 per month, then i said i could only pay 100 a month... He said that was fine, he would make it work, but after reading the reviews i changed my mind, i cancelled on him, he kept insisting and at the end he was giving a better price of 80$ per month. So it went from 160 to 80 per month??? How is that even possible??? They try to take advantage from people... In a very dishonest way.... We went with caulligan's a local company from texas for 9.99/ month... So glad i read the reviews ... Oh and by the way i never got my 25$ gift card... read more

Shady company sending a misleading card in the mail to get into your home to try to sell you a water system. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

Please please please go to Home Depot or Lowe's do your research they claim to have the best 5 stage softener and the best reverse osmosis and the best 1 stage softener but they don't the price is tooooooo high for what the actual product is. They relabeled the softeners they get that wholesale ship from China. Please please please just go to Home Depot or Lowe's they have a better systems for so much cheaper. The soap they give you to cover the price is not worth it cheap cheap soap please please go to Home Depot or Lowe's read more

My husband initally made fun of me for accepting this "timeshare" sales pitch. However, after running through our testing with our knowledgeable representative, Hussan?, and seeing how heavily treated our well water really was; he agreed that it was worth hearing out. We took the time to hear about our current water and how it affects more than just what we drink. The amazing for first time home buyers' promotion being offered, helped us make up our minds that it was worth a whirl. Come to find out, there's even more money back in it for you upon signing your paperwork. My husband liked his "squeeky clean" feeling, after showering in our previous hard, unfiltered water. He was surprised at how soft the new filtered/softened water, really felt and he still got his squeeky cleanliness. I can notice it from the water we cook with, wash clothes with and shower with. The installers took their time to come out on the weekend to accommodate our busy schedules. They were kind, informed, respectful and above all else, promt and quick. We'll see if we run into any hiccups along the way, as it's still only within the first month. I still have confidence though, that should an issue arise, our caring and informed rep will be there to help us through. We 100% recommend giving them a shot; if we've seen an immense difference in the quality of our water, you will too, and it doesn't hurt that the business is Vet owned. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

Extremely unethical marketing practices. I got one of the parcel cards that everyone is talking about. Had zero Fidelis or post-office branding on it, but I called the number just to check on it. If they had a decent product they would not need to trick people. Avoid at all costs. read more

These guys are super deceptive they mail out cards that you have a letter waiting and when you call they try to sell you a water softener system. I wouldn't trust this business in my home. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - This is very deceptive and as to advertise your business. I wouldn't want to trust this company to do any repairs to my home. - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

I give them a 2 1/2 star for lack of transparency and really cheesy marketing methods. Knock on my door for an in-person conversation, rather than sending a cheap "free movie tickets" card in the mail (Which I never received the movie tickets btw). Also on the topic of transparency - during our consultation with the rep, who was apparently the area manager for the region, we flat out asked, "How many points will be affected on our credit score." The answer, "3 points." Lo and behold, a few days later, my score gets hit by 40 points! And my fiancé's by 79 points. The "loan" hits your credit score as revolving credit, so like a maxed out credit card. With a $14K purchase like we had, it greatly hurts you for a while until you can pay it down. **Don't recommend purchasing if you are trying to make another big purchase soon i.e car. Free Soap - - The whole soap "trick" they present during the consultation is really all too much. They include something like 10 or 20 years of "very clean soap" which is not too bad overall, but SUCKS for dishes. Dawn 4 Life. Double the shampoo soap concentrate for long, thick hair. Laundry Pro - - Don't think I really see a difference with the Laundry Pro. Maybe it's one of those things that you can't see or feel, but it is working. We'll never know. I still use laundry soap and softener so I would say that I don't need the Laundry Pro. Same concept with the air purifiers, most likely working, but can't see it to believe it for sure. I'll just put all of my faith in that one. The best of all is the water. Which is the main reason for buying these whole dang package. The water filter hooked up under the kitchen sink for drinking water is by the cleanest drinking water I've tasted. The "tap" water coming out of my faucets and shower head is so good, it tastes better than those filtered jugs you put in the fridge. All-in-all, if I went back in time, I wouldn't have chosen this company because I don't trust them as a company nor people to be honest. I also would cancel the Laundry Pro and Air purifiers. read more

I got a mailer saying I had a parcel to pick up and to call a number to pick it up. I called and it was Fidelis trying to sell me a water filtration system. I thought we'll, I wanted to get a system anyway. May as well make an appointment. They sold me on a system and I got it installed right away. One morning I woke up to 1/4th of house flooded. The kitchen, part of the living room, dining room, down the hall and in my sons room all had water damage. My first thought was to call a plumber, not realizing the cause was the water system. Pretty soon I had a plumber and a disaster restoration saying the system that was installed was both installed improperly and the system failed which caused over 30k worth if damage. My house is still torn apart after 3 months. Fidelis is saying that because I called a different plumber and not them, they aren't taking responsibility. After questioning my rep, he blocked my number. My insurance is not covering all of it and my deductible is $6,000. I should have known this company was shady by how they got me to call them read more

Horrible customer service, refuses to answer the phone. An $8000 system barely last one year before it started falling apart

DO NOT ORDER WATER SYSTEM FROM THIS COMPANY...they installed water system in our home and have had nothing but problems , first the tank flooded my garage entirely so technician came out then alarm sounded in middle of night several times so tech comes out again several times was promised a free maintenance for certain amout of time BIG LIE now they are trying to sell me 300$ maintenance for filters and cant order myself read more

If I could give less stars than 1 I would. They sent me another post card. I called them and began to explain to them how their advertising strategies are misleading. They hung up pretty promptly. Really just a terrible way to operate. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

SCAM ALERT! Got an unsolicited postcard about a 'parcel' this company supposedly attempted to deliver. Called in and got the runaround from the agent, who refused to give any information about any parcel, but instead repeatedly attempted to set up a sales appointment. There is no parcel, they are not a delivery company, and they are using borderline fraudulent techniques to generate sales leads. Steer well clear of this awful company. read more

1. showed up late, I was about to take off when the door rang 2. Didn't show up with a mask nor put on one when I was clearly wearing one 3. told them i'd seen the presentation (Several different companies) but persisted with the routine pitch 4. Tried to push the sale way too hard by trying to lower the payment or 0 interesting for x amount of months 5. Dodge question about certifications, just kept saying they were the best, the cream of the crop, the superb, nothing else like it etc etc etc 6. I can sense their frustration for not getting the sale TODAY 7. After realizing not getting the sale today tried different approaches. read more

Con-artists at it again. I've received two more of these fake gift cards in the past week. I've now reported these incidences to the BBB and USPS. What a joke of a business. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - Fake gift card (marketing scam) - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

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Let's get to the sales methods first. A postcard saying I have a package waiting for me and it's my last chance. Falls in the time when Christmas shopping and shipping things is at a high point. Call back and told it was a service from the city to test my water and they need to make an appointment. I was talked into making a home visit possible. Background of me: Single father bought first home within the last 3 months and have an extremely tight budget already. Home visit shows up and I express I cannot afford anything being sold to me. Was asked to allow to finish the water test and shown the "junk" in my water from the city and how that is affecting me. I am rarely sick and I do not spend tons of money on cleaning products (dish-washing soap, laundry soap, ETC). I do buy bottles water from time to time though. So I was advised I can save all that buy getting this system put in that would eliminate the need to buy any of it. As skeptical as I am I still give the courtesy as I was raised to be respectful of people. Before I know it I am asked to fill out a credit application to see if I would qualify and also to mark that I had a visit from them as to not duplicate. I am curious as to why since it seemed off to me that someone would forget where they have been or at least marked it in some application used to run the company. Next thing I know I am being told that they would be out the next day to install. What? How much is this gonna cost me. I express a desire to get this answered, but it was too urgent to take pics of where the system would go. Left the house with no number to call and no way to know the answers to my questions. Next day while trying to get the person to return the call, plumber shows up and starts ripping my garden up to put the system in. My girlfriend calls and tells me and not only that DRILLS a hole in my wall to plug the unit in. Rips a bush out of the ground and digs to holes to bury this stuff. Covers them with ugly plastic stone looking things making my house now look cheap and leaves with two mud puddles and my front all tore up. Since then not one word from the company. Won't return calls after I call corporate, ignores me at every turn, and won't come get their stuff out of my house. Honestly folks ya want filtered water buy a reverse osmosis system for less than $1000 and have someone install it. You won't get your home tore up and you saved yourself the headache of having to deal with this. I coulda accomplished the same thing and saved 7k. Don't fall for it. read more

I managed to see through their fake parcel cards, and there were ALOT of them. I recently received a card advertising a free amazon gift card for $25. It very carefully doesn't mention the company or anything about water treatment. When I called they started in on the sales pitch, and I had to hang up on them to get them to stop. Any company that has to try to trick you into contacting them and letting them into your house is NOT one that I want to use. Don't fall for their scams. If they truly wanted to give you a free water test, they could do so without all the subterfuge. read more

Scam! They don't explain how payments on the system works, they don't tell you that you are getting a loan from a bank to pay. they explain everything as if it is all through the company. Never once was I explained interest or anything. I'm literally having to sell my house just to get away from and out from under this water system. and yeah yeah should of asked more questions but this was my first home purchase, im young, and I told them that and they still tried to mask things to make it seem like this is the best deal and that I need it or won't have water of any use to me in my house. DO NOT FALL FOR IT! you will regret it! read more

During the first ever reverse osmosis filter replacement, the filter unit came off of the wall. The company crew did not install the filter unit correctly and the company will not fix their defective work because the unit is out of warranty. The unit works perfectly. However, in my experience Fidelis Plumbing has a poor work ethic (allowing poor quality installs, then not fixing them when they fail). I discourage every one from purchasing from this vendor. read more

Sent a card in the mail which was made to look as if it came from a Lowes Home Improvement. No return address. Crappy photos of a Lowes store stolen from the internet. Misspelled word. Card promised a $25 gift card if I called within 48 hours. small print in corner of photo identified as Fidelis Plumbing. Number on card does not match number on website. It appears they use a different number than their primary business number so they can disavow involvement in the advertising scheme if it gets determined to be fraudulent by authorities. The phone number on the card is 469-557-9980 and is not registered with a public database. More importantly, a search through Texas Business Systems (https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/) does not reveal a state-recognized company named Fidelis Plumbing, so unless they are operating under a d/b/a the evidence is starting to make it look like they are not a legitimate business or licensed to perform the work they do. Would not recommend calling them, or doing business with them. read more

Fidelis Plumbing - My "LOW#" ??? - Water Purification Services Near Me - San Antonio, Texas

Overall not happy or impressed with the products. Also, make sure you read the contract if not happy with the products you only have 3 days to return them. The air filters dont seem to be working the way they said. The washer product hasnt cleaned our clothes either. We finally just asked for our money back and they said no sorry only have three days. Excuse me but how can you tell if a air or washing machine product works after three days. The water filter is fine. But all other products dont waste the 14K on. read more

Although we didn't end up agreeing to buy the product, but will be considering the option, Daniel and his wife gave us a very insightful presentation on what is good and bad about the water we use daily. The five stars is based on their presentation and their understanding of our current situation without pushing us too hard for a sale. Mark & Mary. read more