I first came here about two years ago and somehow forgot it even existed until today. Decided to stop by again and got the Saigon Coffee--definitely recommend it. A lot of places miss the mark on cà phê sữa đá by going light on the condensed milk, which makes the drink feel thin, especially with how much ice they pack in. Here, the Saigon Coffee has a much fuller body--it's bold, concentrated, and sweet enough to keep the sourness in check. It actually holds up as you drink it instead of fading after a few sips. The shop itself is beautifully decorated and has its own vibe. I went around 1pm on a Sunday and it was surprisingly quiet with no customers, which felt very different from the first time I came. I'll probably start coming here more often and try more of their menu. Only downside is the price--my large was $8. If it were closer to $6.50, this would easily be my go-to spot. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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Worst service ever. Drinks said will be done in 12 minutes. Waited over 30 minutes after ordering on the app. They ran out of what I ordered, yet it was still available to be ordered on the app. Upon arrival, we asked about our order. They kept on saying we needed to wait since there's a while stack of cups waiting, without even asking us what our order was. After many attempts of inquiring about our drinks, they finally tell us that it's sold out. Okay, why weren't we told that when we first asked about our orders? The two baristas weren't even making or serving drinks in the 30 minutes that we were there. read more

On the search for a decent coffee shop to study at (most important criteria: wifi, open seats, OUTLETS!!, and good drinks), my friend and I decided to try out Tram Coffee. This is my mom's recommendation because it's her favorite place for egg coffee. She'll buy extra to drink it at home every day. We were intrigued by a review we saw of this place, rating the music as 99999999/10. We knew the ambiance must be great. And it was. Tram is cool! I love the mustardy golden yellow walls. It's loud, offensive, and funky. So is the music. V-Pop, Vietnamese rap, some Vietnamese love songs. It's awesome. There aren't loud groups loitering and chatting. Just Vietnamese rap stars spitting bars. Hell yeah! The decor is awesome. It's so unabashedly Vietnamese. They have a little outdoor patio with thatched roofing where you can enjoy your coffee in low chairs, sit back, relax, and people watch. Just like the old country. The staff is friendly and warned me about the strength of the coffee. It's insane. You can order on the kiosk. Really fast service. Coffee is deliciously addicting. Egg coffee is so creamy and thick. Study-wise, it checks off all the boxes. Lots of open tables. Free wifi. Outlets at almost every table. And strong coffee. Clean bathroom, water available. Great vibes. Yeah, this is the spot to get work done. We've found it. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Saigon Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

I wanted to try this place because I heard of the cute nostalgic decor, bringing you back to the old Vietnamese style. It is such a cute place for hanging out. In term of coffee, this place is not a place for the weak. The coffee is very strong, which I love. I have try their egg coffee, VIP, and coconut coffee. Make sure you give it a good stir. If they put toasted coconut on their coconut coffee instead of shredded coconut, it would be perfect. The price is a little high compare to nearby coffee place and parking can be hard to find during lunch hours. Overall, they just gain a new customer. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Coconut coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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An amazing experience. The shop is decorated like Saigon in the 90s. It is giving nostalgia and my childhood memories in Vietnam. . Beside a beautiful decoration, the coffee shop offers a variety of coffee including Egg coffee, coconut coffee, and Saigon coffee style. We ordered all three and very happy with our drinks. The service is nice and employee are very friendly. I highly recommend all Vietnamese coffee lovers to check it out . read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Inside restaurant - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

Review #34 for 2025 I'm a coffee connoisseur addict and real legit Vietnamese is the only thing that hits the spot for me. Located in a small strip mall plaza, but I have always been able to find a parking spot. The workers have always been friendly and helpful. You can order at the register or at the kiosk. Drinks come out pretty quick. Prices here are pretty fair and comparable to most other coffee shops. THe decor inside is pretty cute, reminds you of how a place would look like in Vietnam. They have a room with tiny tables and chairs too. The coffee here is strong and tasty and not watered down. It is also not overly sweet and will definitely wake you up, even the likes of myself! I have tried a few drinks here, but my favorite here is the coconut coffee, combining two things that I just love! The coconut is like a slush with the Viet coffee added in there. They also put REAL fresh coconut shreds on top. Before you could even get extra coconut topping at no extra cost, but not anymore. The coconut coffee is my go to drink here. It is not super sweet like I have had at other places. The regular Viet coffee is also very strong. I would say however, that the only drink I did not like was a tea drink I ordered. I forgot exactly which tea drink I ordered, but it tasted weird to me and I ended up throwing it away after a while because I just did not like it at all. Stick to the coffee drinks! Would I come back here again? Yes! I usually try to come here and get the coconut coffee if I am in the area and am able to! I would definitely be coming back here again! read more

Super cute coffee shop. Got the coconut avocado frappe, egg Saigon, and salted coffee. The coconut avocado frappe was very rich and creamy if you like that fatty goodness Egg coffee and salted coffee both great but I would have to say I prefer the salted coffee more. read more

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Good drinks and they have snack options now. I have not tried their food before , they have Banh mi and other savory dishes options. My cousin usually buys Mixed rice paper here * Banh Trang Tron* and she said it is good. They have nice decorations inside which is a plus if you want to take pictures. Price: A bit pricey, my drinks was $8 before tax. They use high quality ingredients and their different in their egg coffee is that they have coffee jelly. Coffee is STRONG, which I prefer. Service : Is good. You can order online and pick up in store. read more

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Gorgeous interior, almost as if you're stepping into Vietnam! I have gone only around 7-8am on weekends. It's typically not busy at this time, but I'd say that it starts to get a bit busier by 9am. Service is relatively quick though, and price for a regular size is average to other places. Got their VIP Coffee. - VIP Coffee: Right off the bat, very rich (because it's Vietnamese coffee) so it can be heavy for some people who aren't used to more traditional Vietnamese coffee. Personally, I like my coffee a bit sweeter than this shop's regular level of sweetness, but I personally don't find it a big deal as is either. A good choice to try, just know that it comes in only the large. Overall, it's a cute shop to visit and try when you want to try more traditional Vietnamese coffee with the usual modern flavors. I like to describe their taste as a 75/25 traditional to modern interpretation of Vietnamese coffee (For example, I find that Da Vien Coffee is a 50/50 balance.). read more

Tram Cream Coffee - VIP Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

ORDERS: - VIP Coffee - Matchahaya - Avocado Milk Tea - Viet Sticky Rice w/ Corn + Mungbean Drinks were quite basic. The vip coffee tasted like normal Viet coffee but kinda watered down. I didn't feel it was anything special or vip about it. The only drink that stood out was the matchahaya which took me back to Vietnam where I had a matcha drink. This drink was not authentic matcha but I did enjoy the loaded green tea flavor. The avocado milk tea was interesting. It worked but I couldn't really taste the avocado. Staff and service could be better and friendlier. read more

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Easy parking and easy order via kiosk and within 5-7mins, the order is done. The place is cleaned, and well decorated with street like VN outdoor food stall and they not only sell coffee, but others such as smoothies, snacks and others. You can choose the level of sweetness, iced, creams, etc. the drinks well mixed and seem fresh, plus the prices are decently lower then other. Staff seem nice and friendly. read more

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Tram Cream Coffee 3 is the place to go if you want a unique coffee experience. It's the ideal place to relax because of the welcoming, relaxed ambiance that has a touch of Vietnamese coffee culture. This place has exceptional egg coffee that is rich, creamy, and well-balanced. Another delicious delicacy is the little cocoa egg coffee with coffee jelly, which has a chocolatey flavor without being too strong. You feel completely at home thanks to the kind and attentive service. A lovely seating area and a welcoming open exterior are among the comfortable and varied seating options. Because it is located in a small strip mall, parking can be a bit of a challenge, but the effort is well worth it. read more

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Vietnamese Egg Coffee has recently peaked my interest and I have been trying quite a few at different shops. On my recent search, I found Tram Cream Coffee 3 which opened earlier this year. I love the design of the interior, very nostalgic with a comfortable vibe. I love the retro items throughout the shop and they even have a private room near the entrance. The workers there were helpful in explaining the items on the menu. As for their egg coffee, I have not tried something like this before. The good 1. Egg Coffee - Oh wow, that egg cream is so creamy and thick! This is very different than other egg coffees I have tried. It is quite addicting and not too sweet. The coffee itself is strong, I mean very strong! I really suggest you letting the ice melt to dilute the coffee a little in order to actually mix the egg cream. After that, this is one of the best egg coffee I have ever had! 2. VIP - This tasted like an elevated Egg Coffee which it essentially is with the added coffee creamer. Again, let the ice melt a little, mix and just pure bliss. The taste is very elegant. As other have said, parking will be hit or miss as the lot is small for the amount of shops there. I was lucky in finding one as I got there. I will definitely be back to try their other drinks! read more

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Great coffee and tea shop with a nice selection. I love the taste of Vietnamese coffee and this place makes my favorite egg coffee. They add coffee jelly to it. I also like the coconut avocado smoothie midday as well as their teas. The lychee is delish and refreshing. I usually get my drinks less sweet but the kids enjoy them at full sweet. The one thing I don't like about this place is that when you ask for less ice they drink ends up being shorted. For the price you are paying you would think they could fill it to the top which doesn't cost much. Otherwise it's a definite go to spot for us. read more

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Just came back from hcm, this place is not legit. Got coffee and milk tea, both were sour. The jelly was tasteless. Definitely not worth the money. read more

I'm not sure if there's a difference between their SoCal + NorCal locations. I tried this one in Garden Grove and wasn't dissapointed at all. I usually don't like Vietnamese coffee, as it is super strong for me and sometimes my stomach can't handle it. I really LIKED Tram's though! It felt a lot smoother and creamier than others I've tried, made it really easy to drink quite quickly. The interior at this location is really cute, there's a special nook with pillows and little benches that you could stay at and enjoy your coffee. I really liked my experience here and have yet to try the San Jose version, I hope it's the same! read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

LOVE i find myself craving the coconut blended coffee from tram all the time. this coffee is not too strong and perfect for sipping. i also love the coconut bits added inside the egg coffee is on the stronger side but still very delicious. it tastes very creamy with a strong coffee taste read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Egg Coffee, Coconut Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

I've ordered ubereats for this place a couple of times and have been very happy! The cocoa egg one is my go-to but coworkers have loved the VIP and the coconut one. Also the strawberry and tropical teas have been raved about as well. Also the rice paper rolls are a very tasty snack. It's a new dish to me but it covers all the umami cravings. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

The coffee here is STRONG! One sip and I was literally in coffee heaven! I had the VIP coffee, which is their signature phin-filtered brew with coffee jelly, coffee cream, and egg cream. The coffee wasn't too bitter, and the creams weren't too sweet. Once mixed, it was the perfect balance! I only wish they put in a little more coffee jelly because it was so good. Surprisingly, it was only $7 for the VIP coffee when it's listed as $8.75 on the menu. I ordered on the self-serve kiosk and I appreciated how they had pictures of all the drinks and snacks on there. Parking can be tricky, but I found a spot fast. The lounge area is spacious, perfect for a hangout. I didn't try the snacks this time around but they looked super yummy. I'm definitely coming back to try their other drinks and food! read more

Tram Cream Coffee - VIP coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

Walked in before closing, it wasn't 2pm yet and the door was still open and the cashier said sorry we're closed. I will not be coming back ever! What kind of a business refuses serving read more

This was my first time coming here since I have passed by this place and it used to be a boba loca store. This place is like 5 minutes away from my house. Today, I got the Matchahaya since I didn't know what to get. The matcha was so delicious, smooth, creamy, and very thick when drinking it at the end of the cup. I would give this drink a 5/5 since I love matcha & personally my favorite it's very sweet. The service was fast & employee is very nice and friendly. Their menu has coffee, frappuchino, milk teas, juices, cold brew fruit teas, snacks, and toppings. There is plenty of parking. The store has a great atmosphere, spacious, and clean. Also, they have free wifi, so you can do your homework here. I would definitely come back here to try their other drinks! read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Matchahaya - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

Nice place for the teenagers hangout here. Nice service always, good help the customers how to order too. My egg coffee is good taste with 25% less sweet here read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Eggs Egg Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

I RATE 4.5 Concept Decoration: 10 points no excuses. I love decorations here. Every corner in shop, you can have nice photos of traditional Vietnamese. Drink Coffee and snack is high prices $6-$ 7.75. I ordered Tiramisu Latte. A little bite, drink was not sweetened pair with my taste , I tasted cream on top last . My girlfriend order Juice tea. She said she like it. They have roll rice paper is expensive $13.80. Served nicely . Service good and nicely. Wide space inside. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

First time at Tram coffee! Got the egg coffee (comes with coffee jelly) to try. My drink was very delicious! Service was fast and easy. Decor is very nice inside. Also super spacious, good for groups. I wasn't hungry but I would come back to try the snacks nxt time. read more

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Strong coffee with yummy creams and fresh and unique fruit teas! And Furniture and decorations all imported straight from Vietnam for that true saigon vibe. Must try's: Peach orange fruit tea- super refreshing on a hot day and with getting the XL, comes with lemongrass for some brightness and zestiness to the sweet and tangy peach orange tea Saigon cream coffee- STRONG, you will be vibrating, mix well with the cream and coffee jelly to balance the flavor out and take your time to sip it like the viet uncles do Banh Trang Tron- rice paper salad that taste like it came from the street vendors in saigon Note: Parking in the front might be difficult since it's a smaller lot but there's more parking in the back(never had to do this) or you can walk over from the adjacent plaza (da vien plaza) read more

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Vietnamese coffee shop is just opened in town! They have great Vietnamese coffee variety and snacks. Good for taking photos as they have authentic Vietnamese interior design! I had: 1. Tiramisu cream latte 2. Peach orange tea 3. Coconut avocado 4. Vietnamese rolled rice paper Price is a bit higher than average coffee places. read more

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Happy Grand Opening to Tram Cream Coffee's 3rd location! They were offering buy 2, get 1 free today at 08:00 - 16:00. Parking: Free parking. They're located in a small plaza, so finding a spot can either be a hit or miss. Ambiance/Environment: I absolutely love the ambiance. They have a medium sized space with plenty of seating inside and small seating outside. It definitely feels like you're in Vietnam. The wall decor, the wooden chairs and tables, the colors .. sooo detailed! Service: The cashier was knowledgeable about their menu items. She gave me recommendations while ordering. Throughput was a little over 5 minutes. Drinks: I noticed majority of their coffee had similar ingredients with maybe one or two difference of an ingredient. 1) Egg Cacao - cacao powder, condensed milk, egg cream with coffee jelly. I always ask for easy ice because I'm a sipper (yes, even for Vietnamese coffee). But the cashier recommended to keep the regular amount of ice because it helps dilute the concentrated coffee, otherwise the easy ice would melt quickly. I agreed to leave it as is. I noticed the drink came completely frozen .. there was no ice. It was topped with fresh egg cream and coffee jelly. Not sure why it was frozen. It took a while for it to melt. After it melted, the coffee part was definitely concentrated and creamy. The egg cream tasted decent. When I mixed it, the egg cream completely disappeared. The coffee jelly tasted like coffee jelly, but I'd prefer a bit more. I also noticed the cup wasn't filled all the way; seemed like a quarter of it wasn't filled not even with the foam. 3/5 2) Tiramisu Cream Latte - phin filtered coffee, condensed milk, milk & cheese foam. This didn't come frozen lol. I asked for easy ice. This was my favorite drink! The coffee was also concentrated and creamy, and the cheese foam was delicious! 5/5 3) Running Dragon - peach oolong tea with dragon fruit. My bf ordered this drink, and I took a sip. This was definitely refreshing. He said that you can taste the dragon fruit more than the peach. He really liked the bits of dragon fruit at the bottom. The only downside was the straw not being long enough for the large cup. They only had one sized straw, and it kept falling inside the cup. 4/5 Pricing: Prices are $$$ more than an average cup of coffee. They have two sizes - medium and large, and it's a $2+ difference. I really like the ambiance and the cup designs. Though I feel that they should change their cup lids to the flat lids or the sip lids, so that it can accommodate the straws. I'd say it's worth coming back for the ambiance, and maybe to try other drinks. read more

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I might have found what I've been looking for: strong, sweet coffee with enough outlets to stay and study for a few hours. This place used to be boba loca but after a great run of over 15 years, it is now tram cream coffee 3 (where is 1 and 2?). Anywho, its busy considering its new but ordering and receiving my order was swift. I asked for recommendations and decided to go for the egg coffee, large, extra ice. It was recommended as one of the sweeter coffees so I went for that. The price of a large is $2.50 more which is actually a lot to charge for a size upgrade so overall my drink was about $8.75. Lol, yes thats pricey but it was worth it. It looks like they have 3 different sizes. The egg cream was thick, sweet, with a slight of vanilla or caramel taste. I liked that it didn't have an egg after taste. The coffee itself was super strong so be aware. I felt like a shot of creamer to the deep taste of the coffee would have made it perfect, but after mixing everything together and having the ice melt a bit, it's a fantastic drink. It also comes with jelly which I dont mind at all. Definitely worth a try. I wonder how different their other drinks are. I will have all the time to find out considering its located in the heart of the community I frequent a lot. Its a place that you can study at. A decent amount of space to sit and outlets are hidden under some of the seats. The vibes and coffee here is mucho bueno! read more

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Came here to grab some coffee before my day started. The white & sea salt coffee was well balanced and not overly sweet. Service was quick and they were friendly! This location used to be named Boba Loca! read more

$6 seems to be normal for a drink nowadays, but it should be worth it to pay that price Coconut coffee is all coffee tasting little if any condensed milk or coconut milk aftertaste Very strong coffee taste - did feel quite wired The coconut they use as topping is not the soft juicy meat, but rather slightly dry. I asked the cashier if I can trade out the drink, he looked at me and said they don't do that. Didn't bother to ask what was the issue. It sucks is the issue lol Save your money, go to da vien for coconut coffee read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Coffee quite bitter - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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This is the third location with the first two in San Jose. This shop took over a previous boba tea shop located in a small plaza. Has indoor seating and one partial table outside. The word trạm is translated as station. Like coffee station. The decor has a wall of old post cards and newspaper. Small tables like VN street vendors. Upon entering, there was a self kiosk to place your order but the line was long so the cashier took my order. When I try a new Viet coffee shop, I always order the Egg Coffee and the Coconut Coffee. I believe, those two drinks will tell if I'll come back again based on quality and taste. The menu was confusing with Coconut Coffee located under 'Coffee' as Coconut Coffee Frappuccino and again under 'Frappuccino' as Coconut Coffee. He told me both items were the same. The Egg Coffee was also confusing. It's listed as Egg Coffee and Egg Saigon. The difference, Egg Coffee has coffee jelly. I got Coconut Coffee but I don't like mine blended. I prefer iced. I did not change my sweetness level. The coffee was not detected in this drink and it was mainly ice and cream. Also got the Egg Saigon. Apparently they specialize in the egg cream so it was really thick. It's lathered around the inside of the cup. The coffee was not strong and had dense thick texture like sipping melted ice cream. This same drink at other places are separated with the egg cream on top and you'll have to mix. At Tram, it's evenly distributed. We also got a large non coffee drink, Avocado Coconut. The cup design was slim and tall, which kept tipping over in the car drink holder. The drink itself was icy creamy with more coconut than avocado. The cup size was also confusing. They offer 4 sizes but blended drinks have their own two sizes and material. There are 4 snack items if you're hungry. Overall, there are many Viet coffee shops in OC. There are two that I will keep coming back. Tram is not one of them. read more

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Can the service be any better. Well you have 2 options order in front from cashier or through the machine touch screen. Place is ok size. Cozy and nice decoration/deeigns. This place does not fail on the coffee quality. So addictive I'm too spoiled to drink ok coffee nowadays. Thanks a lot Tram 3 and PLEASE OPEN ONE. NEAR THE SF VALLEY!!!! read more

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1. The coffee was strong, and the juice actually had dragonfruit chunks! 2. The spot has fun casual vibes with decor that embrace Vietnamese culture! 3. There are indoor and outdoor seatings! 4. The staff were friendly and timely with my drinks! 5. There is parking in the front and back! Note: There is a single restroom available for customers! Photo: VIP and Running Dragon read more

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Located on the corner of Gilbert and Garden Grove. It's in the same plaza as BCD. I ordered the VIP that was close to almost $9 VIP: Phin-filtered Coffee, Milk, Condensed Milk, Tram's Egg Cream, and Tram's Coffee Cream Overall it was good. Strong as usual but very unique with all the added toppings to the drink. Inside it was pretty busy for an afternoon weekday. A lot of people were ordering other drinks as well so it seemed really poppin inside. I would come back again to try the other beverages on the menu. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - VIP - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

Saw that they opened one up in SoCal! So I was excited to try it. My boyfriend really wanted coffee for a mid-day pick me up. He got the VIP coffee and I decided to go with the Peach Orange tea. The employee there was actually the one who recommended it to me. I was kind of hesitant because I don't really like fruit chunks in my drinks. But it was soo good and sweet. When the VIP coffee came out I was surprised how thick it was. We felt like we had to wait for the ice to melt in order to mix it. The only compliant I have is why are the drinks so tall? I felt like it was so hard to mix my fruit tea. As for the VIP i felt like we needed a longer straw to mix it up. Also the parking situation in this plaza was very small and there was a ton of traffic due to road closures. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Peach Orange Tea and the VIP coffee without the coffee jelly - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

New coffee shop in the area. I came around 9ish on a Sunday and it wasn't crowded and parking wasn't an issue. The coffee shop is very cute and there's an individual room within the shop to sit and chat. You can order off the automated system or you can order with the employee. The service was pretty quick after ordering. I saw that they have an online ordering system as well, but I don't think it's available for this location yet. I ordered the egg coffee, which was pretty strong in coffee but the taste of the egg coffee wasn't really there. There was jelly in the coffee which I wasn't expecting so it kind of threw me off. There was a ton of ice as in the drink as well. It was about $6-7 for a small coffee. The price is pretty steep if you're comparing it to the nearby coffee shops. Overall, this coffee shop is okay. The coffee is different and is cool to try. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

Our Go-To Coffee place in town. The best and strongest coffee that gives u the perfect kick - LOVE IT! Service is fast and ambiance is nostalgia of old Vietnam. Unlike other "coffee" places like Da Vien, Phin Smith, Phuc Long....TRAM coffee is the REAL deal...No frills just simply good strong coffee as the base for all of their custom drinks. Keep up with the quality drinks and service! Thank You read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Saigon Coffee and Salted Cream Coffee with extra shot and ice on the side.. - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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Really great spot right on Garden Grove Blvd! I've tried this spot a variety of times at this point and I can say I really love how strong their coffee is! They're able to strike a balance between having really flavorful drinks, while not sacrificing the quality of the coffee! The inside is quite large too, with a combination of traditional tables and chairs, as well as this sunroom-esque space great for groups. The wait can be a bit long though, as I've encountered waits around 15-20 minutes, but it's super worth! read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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Tram Cream Coffee 3 is not worth it. They fill the cup with full of ice, so I only got about 3 or 4 sips of actual coffee before it was gone. I decided to give them a second chance and asked for less ice - big mistake. This time, they barely filled 70% of the cup, but I still paid the same price. For the same money, Da Vien right next door is a much better option, or you can take a quick 5-minute drive to Phin Smith for a way better coffee experience. read more

Tram Cream Coffee - Same price - Cafes Near Me - Garden Grove, California

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I've been a fan of Trạm since the beginning and have always loved the chocolate drink. But lately, the presentation has gone downhill and honestly made me lose my appetite. My recent orders, including the cream coffee and Running Dragon, had barely any cream on top. For $6.50, the drinks didn't match the photos and felt underwhelming. At the very least, the cream could be spread more evenly to make the drinks look more appealing. read more

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