We dined at Bar 888 before a concert while staying at the Intercontinental. We were there early and may have been the only folks there when we arrived, but things picked up as we dined. It was a Monday evening to be fair. The service was friendly and unintrusive. We stated with some complementary beverages from the hotel- I had a Prosecco and my husband went with an old fashioned. For food- I ordered a hamburger with fries and my husband went with the flatbread. My hamburger was solid, the fries were crispy. It was a perfectly pleasant meal. My husband's flatbread was a little small, but I'm not sure it's meant to be a main course. Our experience here was a perfectly pleasant, no-frills dining experience - a sound 3.5 stars. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Drink menu - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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I stayed at the InterCon for a week on a biz trip, so naturally I ended up at Bar 888 a few times since it's the hotel's lobby bar. It's..fine. The vibe is what you'd expect from a hotel bar, decent enough for a drink or quick bite, but not somewhere you'd go out of your way to visit. The drink menu felt pretty limited. No lychee martinis or anything remotely fun or interesting. Just the basics. What really stood out, though and not in a great way was how understaffed it was. The hotel was clearly at full capacity with a big group in-house, and yet they only had one bartender working a completely packed bar. He was friendly and doing his best, but service was painfully slow. It just didn't make sense from a staffing or guest experience standpoint. I only ordered food once and went with a turkey club. It was decent. If you're staying at the InterCon, it's convenient for a nightcap or quick drink, but don't expect much beyond that. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Espresso martini - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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Refined and elegant Bar and Bistro 888 gives new meaning to hotel restaurant dining. Located on the ground floor of the Intercontinental San Francisco on the corner of 5th and Howard Streets in the South of Market neighborhood in downtown San Francisco. Bar and Bistro 888 is your typical hotel restaurant that serves elevated cuisine in a sleek setting that tends to be populated by tourists, which would certainly be the case when a friend and I went on a recent autumn weekend evening. What brought us locals here was the fact that Bar and Bistro 888 was participating in San Francisco Restaurant Week, where local restaurants offer diners, both locals and out-of-towners alike, the chance to order a pre-fix menu of three to four courses set at a reasonable price, in this case 60 dollars a person. It was both my friend and I going to the Restaurant Week menu website that caused us both to be intrigued with the Bar and Bistro 888 menu, as this particular restaurant we were unfamiliar with. Upon arrival at Bar and Bistro 888 it was their bar area that was the place to be, as a number of sports fans were staying at the hotel and enjoying the amenities of the hotel's sole bar and restaurant. After walking through their boisterous bar area there was no real host desk but a server asked if we wanted to sit in a booth that was adjacent to their bar and we said we wanted to sit in their main dining room in order to get a little quiet time. We chose a four top to sit at, as there was plenty of room to sit in their restaurant, as the entrance to the former Michelin-star rated restaurant Luce was open, and ready to welcome diners, if they were open to do so. The menu at Bar and Bistro 888 is separated into categories including Appetizers, Main Courses, Sides, To Share, and quite the extensive drink menu. But we remained committed to their Restaurant Week menu, and for our Starter, we both enjoyed their Butternut Squash Soup which was topped with vanilla olive oil and pepitas. For our entrée course, I ordered their Roasted Pork Chop, which was served with sweet potato hash, cabbage, compressed apple, pickled cranberries, candied walnuts and a side of rye pork jus, which was topped with buttermilk. My dining mate ordered their Roasted Halibut, which was topped with onion ash mash, citrus sauce, petite turnips and mustard greens. For our dessert course, we both enjoyed their Creme Fraiche Panna Cotta, which was topped with fresh berries, lemon curd, and a thyme shortbread crumble. Our soup course came out first and it was a warm nicely prepared dish that was perfect for consumption, especially during the fall season. Then our entrées would be presented and my pork chop was one of the nicer dishes that I have enjoyed as the pork chop was perfectly cooked on both sides. If there was one qualm that I had, the accompanying hash and cabbage side was too overwhelming for the entire dish to be appreciated, as the same could be said for my dining mate's halibut entrée. Thankfully, they have a pretty extensive wine list at Bar and Bistro 888, and while I enjoyed their North Coast Cabernet Sauvignon from Starmont, my dining mate savored a glass of their Belle Glos Pinot Noir. When it came time for dessert, our server was nice enough to present us with our aforementioned Panna Cotta, but we also enjoyed a Chocolate Molten Lava Cake topped with Creme Fraiche. Our time at Bar and Bistro 888 was enjoyable as the place was boisterous to say the least, as sound carries throughout the first floor lobby area. Service was a little spotty during our visit, as we waited quite a while for our bill to arrive and be settled. That said, Bar & Bistro 888 serves thoughtful, well-prepared cuisine in a stylish setting, and I'm glad I had the chance to sample a few of their dishes. San Francisco is full of hidden gems, and this spot is definitely leaning toward becoming one of them. read more

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There were some hits and misses at breakfast. The coffees are good. The chocolate croissant was stale, unfortunately. Two Salmon plate orders were only served with two mini-bagels although without prompting, the server went ahead and prepared more bagels for us. The avocado toast was good but portion was small with only one egg and half an avocado. It's conveniently located right as you step out of the guest elevators for guests. read more

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I probably would give this 3 1/2 stars, it was just slightly above average and given it's all you can eat. The price was OK. Nothing super special to write home about. Service was fine. Ambience was nice but again nothing crazy special. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Breakfast bar - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Good option if you're staying at the hotel. Server was amazing. Great Drinks, decent food. Dont worry parents there is a kid menu. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Kids menu pasta - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Stopped by here to pick up dinner since I was staying at the hotel. Went up the bartender and asked for a menu. I ordered the Caesar salad with Salmon and also the beer battered fries. Total came out to be $45 before tip, it's San Francisco and a hotel restaurant so expect prices like this. My dinner came out fairly quick and I took it upstairs to enjoy. Salad was good, salmon was tasty, although I wish it was cooked through some more, it was half cooked/half raw but I think that's how a lot of places make salmon. Fries were good, had a nice crunch and batter. If you're staying at the hotel this is definitely convenient and will hit the spot for dinner. They also have breakfast and lunch during the weekdays and brunch on weekends. I didn't get a chance to try their cocktails but there were plenty of people at the bar enjoying them. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Beer battered fries - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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I only had their drinks but the drinks were fabulous...I'm going to have to try the actual food next time! I'm lightweight so I might not know what I'm speaking about though =P Great bartenders and they were super friendly and also gave us some pointers on local food faire. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Old fashioned with 4 Roses - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Breakfast was included during our stay at Intercontinental and we were pleasantly surprised with the breakfast options. Solid breakfast menu, good portions and quality preparation. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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Review after evening drinks and morning breakfast buffet during our recent stay at the Intercontinental SF. Liked both our cocktails. Also like the fact that the cocktail menu was new compared to our last visit (pictures attached). Breakfast buffet was nice but was quite pricey (for $39 + 18% Service charge). Breakfast seating is in the lovely decor of "Luce". Finally nothing beats the convenience of drinks and buffet right in the hotel. read more

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Nice bartenders and so experienced in the craft of good cocktail's. The bar is nice and inviting. Comfy seats at the bar and cozy tables around. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - French 75 - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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Hotel bar and restaurant at the Intercontinental hotel. It was a lifesaver in the morning when I didn't want to go through the hassle of walking to the parking structure and moving the car out which would have taken 20 minutes. At the bar hours you can get a drink, snacks, and do food orders. During breakfast, the nice thing is the division of things you can order. For those in a hurry you can do grab and go items like cereal, yogurt, croissants, coffee, and drinks. For those with more time you can order hot, fresh made items to eat at the bar or take to your room. I got the breakfast sandwich. Bacon, egg, and cheese in brioche with a salad. The quality was very good and the staff made the wait nice with their friendly attitude and positivity. Even the side salad was great quality! read more

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Bar 888 is truly a hidden gem, they have amazing food and drinks, beginning with their breakfast, pastries, and coffee and ending with their incredible dinner menu. Antonio was our waiter and he was ABSOLUTELY delightful. He had amazing recommendations, brought our orders out timely, and was constantly checking on us to make sure we had everything we needed. Thank you Bar 888 and Antonio for making our experience memorable. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Rosé - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Bread pudding. So out of this world good I had to go back the next day. Food is good enough to want to stay at the hotel and not leave. We had the spaghetti bolognese and cheeseburger with a mixed salad. Impeccable service. read more

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Great service, well prepared food and dining room seating. Nice decor and clean environment inside of the Intercontinental Hotel. The Cheeseburger and salad tasted great and fresh. The Diet Coke costed $5 a can. The Spaghetti Bolognese was tasty and comes in a half and full serving. The bread pudding is really good also. read more

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it was so good. I definitely will recommend going we got the middle one and it was good. we got the prime rib it was so good. the fatty meat was amazing. the sushi is really great as well I love that it's included in the all you can eat read more

Located in the Intercontinental, Bar 888 is a solid hotel bar. I stayed at the hotel for a week for a work conference, and this was such a convenient pit stop to meet up with coworkers to grab a drink. Cocktails are around $15 and glasses of wine start at around $12. I give Bar 888 four stars because of solid service and convinience. Shout out to Sergio who was always friendly, and able to split the bill for even the largest groups. It's also super nice to not have to leave the hotel if you want to enjoy a drink and conversation with coworkers. Cheers to Bar 888. read more

Bar 888 is probably one of my most favorite hotel bars that I've visited. Shout out to Sergio for taking care of myself and the rest of my colleagues during our recent work trip to San Francisco. During our 4-night stay at the Intercontinental, plenty of us found ourselves starting and finishing our evening at Bar 888 after our work conference had ended for the day. And for how busy we made it for the Bar 888 staff, service was never once an issue. Hotel bars tend to be a bit more on the pricier side, Bar 888 is no exception. Drinks were around $12-$16/USD each, and for this Canadian, that was a bit on the $$$ side for me for one drink. But I mean, when in San Francisco, I guess. Great spot to meet for a quick drink or if you don't want to leave the hotel. Cheers to Sergio and the rest of the wonderful staff! Thank you again. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

I had the avocado toast. It was excellent but ask for a steak knife. Also had the French toast which was also yummy. Service is excellent.

I've visited this bar one evening during my stay at the IHG. They had a decent selection of drinks, but the service was pretty lackluster. It's difficult to say if this is the norm or if they were just having an off-night. read more

Food took forever + was cold and didn't even make it right total waste of time not even the lemonade was good

Each time I stopped in a had the LES HALLES [$13 Hanger One Buddha's Hand Lemon Vodka and Saint Germain Elderflower Liqueur with muddled cucumber & fresh lime juice, served up] clearly I enjoyed it to have 3 nights in a row!!! Cute bar gets a nice pre-crowd that clams down as the evening comes to a close. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Les Halles Cocktail - Hanger One, Buddha's Hand Lemon Vodka, Saint Germain Elderflower Liq muddled w-cucumber & lime - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

This bar is definitely a hidden gem for the locals who know about this. There's good food, nice ambiance, stiff old fashioned's, & an even better staff. Patty is truly amazing! We'll be back for more. Thank you all! read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Our Bulleit sour & old fashioned--stiff, yet smooth. - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

GIVE ME AN EIGHT! GIVE ME ANOTHER EIGHT! GIVE ME ANOTHER EIGHT! WHAT DOES IT SPELL?!....ummm, huh? So where does a Yelper go for his 888th review? Hmmm ...perhaps Bar 888. Nobu actually gave me the brilliant idea of coming here on the occasion of this arguable milestone. I seem to be moving up in class...500 Club for my 500th review...800 Larkin for my 800th...and now Bar 888 for #888. It's all in the numbers, y'know. I kinda knew what to expect since by coincidence, I dined at Luce - also in the spanking new InterContinental Hotel - earlier this month. I didn't realize I walked right by Bar 888 then because the open space goes from lobby to bar to restaurant in a seamless fashion. Normally I like an open floor plan, but I have to say Bar 888 reminds me of an airport lounge. I kept trying to look for a sign to see if my flight had been delayed. The bar still has that tinge of retro-70's about it like Luce, though they seem to have gone to a fire sale at West Elm since everything wooden was chocolate brown. Cocktails were priced for the hotel guests...that's for sure. A fancy selection with plenty of fru-fru. I had a $11 Pimms Spritz 'cause I was going for something refreshing. It was. I didn't realize I was supposed to order one of their vintage grappas, but I wasn't in a particularly high-octane mood for a weeknight. Speaking of which, Jamie W. had a virgin mojito for $6, which had an especially puckery- minty flavor without the rum. We shared a $4 plate of their sweet pickles which tasted like they came right out of a Vlassic jar. Actually my favorite eats were the freebies, especially those wasabi-flavored crunch nuts. Tasty. The seats in the lounge area have the same shiny faux-leather as the restaurant, and you certainly have room to spread out since the more hardcore drinkers were at the bar itself. I just wish it felt cozier and the service less brisk. Especially for my 888th review...where was the cake?...where were the streamers?...could someone blow me a kazoo? COCKTAILS - 3.5 stars...the drink was almost as brisk as the service...pass me the wasabi nuts AMBIANCE - 3 stars...Flight 782 is ready for boarding...passengers with disabilities and small children will be seated first...and thank you for flying InterContinental Airlines SERVICE - 3 stars...brrrr... TOTAL - 3 stars...I think a dive will do me next time read more

Small bar adjacent to Luce with a square U-shaped bar area with a towering display of bottles on the fourth side and a few lounge tables. Hip retro decor. It wasn't too loud, but the bartender had a hard time understanding our orders. I felt like a silly tourist in a foreign country shouting in slow motion when the other person obviously doesn't understand English ("MAYY-KERS MARRKK MANN-HAA-TTAN!!"). Even pointing at the sommelier's choice wine in the menu didn't have better results ("GRRAAA-NNAASHH"). Once we got our drinks it was a nice place to hang for half an hour before getting seated at Luce for dinner. Complimentary almonds were provided. WARNING: The beautiful black granite bar top is beveled slightly downwards the last ~5 inches. One of our party found out the hard way as her drink started slipping and spilled a bit on her lap. In the 1/2 hr we were there we saw this happen to another person except their drink fell completely on the floor. Cool look, bad design. read more

I have been a San Francisco resident for half my life. I finally stumbled upon a bar at the intercontinental, and was blessed to meet one of the most amazing bartenders I have ever met. Please let billy know, that his heart is kind, and his service is impeccable. Thank you sir, you are the only reason why i will Come back, and I will never plan on staying anywhere else as long as Billy runs the bar. Amazing service, nothing but love. Thank you. read more

We stayed at the InterContinental hotel and passed this bar every night, it's located by the elevators in the hotel. It gets a nice little crowd at night. We finally stopped by to knock back a few beers and watch the GSW play in the conference finals. They have televisions and a descent selection of local beers, we had a good time. You can also order food, which we did not do. I found it to be a nice hotel bar with a helpful/friendly staff. CHEERS. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Beer options on tap. - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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update: they've had time to get the rhythm down, which they have succeeded in doing. Only the rhythm sucks. Sure sign of a place to avoid: employees chatting with employees, away from the customers, while customers are asking for service. They have the 5-star prices, 5-star attitude, 3-star selection and 1-star service. This place did more for the community when it was a parking lot. I work next door and the hotel sits on what used to be our parking lot. Sitting in 888 with a hefty pour of Macallan we decided that it beat sitting in the parking lot. Just weird knowing that my car used to sit right where this establishment lies. It does seem they're in shakeout mode but it's nice to know I now have a quality bar a minute away from the lobby. No more having to cross the street to get to the Chieftain. read more

It was my first time here for a meal after a recommendation from a friend and I really enjoyed it! I had their Burger, which was great - juicy and full of flavor...one of the best! It arrived with Garlic French Fries, which were also very good - garlicy with some nice saltiness from the nice addition of Parmesan cheese. Along with this fantastic burger I had a Gingery-Doo - a nice Vodka cocktail with great ginger flavor. Overall, this is a great spot for cocktails and bar food. The burger is fantastic and I definitely recommend it. read more

Located inside the beautiful Intercontinental Hotel. The lighting, seating, and menus are all very classy. As for drinks, I only tried the Midori sour, and I loved it. Great presentation and taste. A good place to chill and lounge with great service. The crowd is definitely older. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Midori sours - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Came for drinks before going to 1015 Folsom on a Saturday night in December 2016! Atmosphere: jazz and instrumental music played in the background, brightly lit table area, seemed like a mostly 30s and up crowd Service: a little slow. We sat at the bar top originally and was greeted with a drink menu after a few minutes. We ordered with the bartender and were moved to a bar table for a more enjoyable experience. Drinks: Old fashioneds are the bomb here!!! Smooth and definitely something to savor Recommend going after dinner around 8-830pm, bar gets busy around 9-10pm Overall, would for sure come back! Very classy place to unwind PS. Their alcohol display is just wow. Kudos bar 888! read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Old Fashioneds on point! - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

Serves a mean Basil Gimlet. Honestly a beautiful serene way to start off the night. Caution: the bar counter slopes slightly, watch for the dip or you'll have a wet lap. SITTING room only: the tvs are angled so that you have to sit down to see what's on. read more

Grappa, anyone? Anyone? Um, no. I will have a Goose and soda, please. I am of Italian heritage and I would not touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole. That said, this bar inside the Intercontinental is fantastic. It may be a hotel lobby bar, and yes, it may focus on Grappa, which is weird, IMO, but I liked the place. The service was excellent, the drinks were good, the bar was packed for a random Thursday night, the crowd was upscale, in short it was all good. I doubt many San Franciscans will come here as a Friday night destination, but if you are in town for business and either staying at an area hotel or the Intercontinental itself, this is a great place to unwind for a few drinks. read more

The Intercontinental is open for business and Bar888 is already packed to the gills. Lots of well dressed patrons, suits and whatnot, with a few laid back guests smattered throughout. The space is very chic and not too large, a few booths a squarish bar counter, and very modern apointments in design and furniture. Since they just got their liquor license the bar isn't quite fully stocked yet but they do have a handful of their signature grappa collection. I told the waitress to surprise me and I ended up with a cocktail that had two different grappas (one blueberry infused, the other honey), lime juice and blueberrys afloat. The other drink was a solid French 75. Very good start for opening day and I expect the place only to get better as they move towards their soft opening to full scale operations. read more

It's hard to get a full gauge on how Bar 888 will settle into itself but as dedicated follower of hotel bars, I had to go opening night. The Hotel Intercontinental, itself just opened, was already alive right at five. The bar is situated between the main lobby and Luce, the hotel's restaurant, allowing an easy flow between them both. There's some plush seating -- good for groups of four or five -- and the bar has seating all around it. It's top shelf liquor displayed impeccably, but the main attraction, at least for now, is the extensive grappa menu. If you're used to thinking of grappa as tasting like rocket fuel, you're still somewhat correct but they also do stock a wider range of more accessible (read: flavored) grappas. We didn't really get a chance to try the higher-end "firewater" (that said, our grappas were still $10 a piece), but if you're interested in acquiring a taste for the stuff, this is the place to do it. The crowd promises to be a mix of suits and well-heeled travelers, so take it or leave it for what it is, or just add more grappa. read more

*sigh* Ho hum. Another Monday night hanging with the guys. A friend of mine was visiting from out of town and wanted to meet up since I have not seen his navy blue suited arse in about half a year. Not to mention, I rarely hit up bars in hotels unless it is for the following: 1. Conference (the conference is so bad one is compelled to seek refuge elsewhere) 2. Date (the date is so bad one is compelled to seek refuge elsewhere) 3. Corporate event (the party is so bad one is compelled to seek refuge elsewhere) It was only upon my meek acceptance of this that he hit me with a double whammy at the entrance after giving me one of his awesome hugs. "My coworkers are joining us." After I was seated his coworkers came down from their rooms and lo and behold, consisted of four other men, in suits. Was he trying to kill me? I kicked him on the shin under the table. Good thing I was somewhat appropriately dressed for this occasion in my standard black shift dress and patent black slingbacks. His supervisor and three other associates. I ordered my usual, Grey Goose on the rocks while Alex proceeded to do a round of Glenlivet for the boys. Ah, the consequences of a well meaning friend ;o) Bar 888 has a very sleek and sophisticated modern interior. I think it would have been a bit more grounding to have darker espresso colored furniture, because the white contrast gave it a little space agey interior. But I'm not complaining. The staff person assigned to our little table was consistent and kept coming back at intervals to insure we were always full or at the very least, topped off. I personally adore the Intercontinental Hotel Group. When I was in Boston for work, I stayed at one and fell in love, immediately. Everything was to my liking and specifications. No King Bed? They fixed me up with a Queen promptly. The men here held the doors open for me. I had one of the best views along the waterfront. So, I confess to being a bit biased. In addition to our drinks the guys decided to order a little something as a prep prior to going out for dinner. Bar 888 hosts a decent Bar Bites menu. Not too fancy. Just perfect. The charcuterie plate was typical, a decent amount of cured meats, cheeses to slow down the absorption of alcohol. The dishes here are of decent pricing and not too expensive. I personally wanted to try the hamburger but since I got conned into going to dinner with them, thought I'd hold back my meaty inclinations. Our conversation went somewhere along the lines of the men bantering about the current proposals all the way up to what their next stop was this week. Then it came upon the subject of golf, which basically ate up the rest of the evening. The GG was getting to me and I could already feel the blush creeping slowly across my cheeks. Decent drinks, lovely bar, good location. I may be back just to see my friends and try their Grappa, their signature drink. read more

Pretty good food and good service but the food was way overpriced. It is convenient thought, if you are staying at the hotel.

We had time to kill before our reservation at Luce so we decided to grab cocktails from Bar 888. Bar 888 is known for their Grappa cocktails. I tried two of them. The Chamomile Crush, which featured their chamomile grappa with orange blossom water, lemon juice, and agave, tasted strong at first but had a good tart tangy flavor to it. I also tried the Moscone Pear which was really delicious!! It was a grappa with fresh pear puree in it along with fresh lemon and lime juice. Refreshing and flavorful. I would definitely come back to try other grappa cocktails. The bar is small and dark in the front of Luce. There is also seating on the side too. read more

Bar and Bistro 888 - Cocktail Bars Near Me - San Francisco, California

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Last night I went to Bar 888 at the brand new InterContinental Hotel with Nish, Stephy and some other Yelp peeps. I have to say, we felt very chic when we were greeted with free champagne and mimosas at the door. We were there for -- the Grappa! We couldn't wait to take a taste of Bar 888's trendy new cocktails. Unfortunately, there wasn't much Grappa being served (yet), but we did try the blueberry "cozmo" and the mojito. Both were good, and I would say the mojito was great! The verdict? Grappa still tastes like lighter fluid. If they can manage to disguise it in interesting enough ways, I suppose they may start a trend. read more

Hmmm, well, what to say about this place other than, it's just not really my scene. It's the kind of place that made me feel like I was a high class escort going to meet a "client." Very upscale and "chi chi" or however you spell that. But I dunno, definitely not my thing. I went with "Hotel Bar Lover Extraordinaire," Nish N, to try the new Grappa offerings, but was bummed to learn that on opening night, they only had....2 kinds available? That seemed odd to me, I mean, this is your big night guys, let's roll out the menu and show this town what you're made of! As for the Grappa, wow, that is, um, well, that is some interesting stuff. The words, gasoline, lighter fluid, and burning come to mind, but if that's what you are into, they you are in luck because 888 has 'em. As for pluses, I did like the fact that as soon as you walked into the hotel they gave you champagne, but I think this was an opening night kinda dealio. Not too sure. Also the decor is nice, but the word cozy definitely doesn't come to mind. Sterile is the word i would use. All in all, I could see coming here for maybe a meeting with a fancy pants client, but as far as a bar that would make me crave mandatory repeat attendance, this definitely wasn't it. read more