We had an emergency a month or so ago; our shower handle in our master bedroom was getting really difficult to turn and eventually just started leaking very badly at like midnight on a weekday. We looked up 24/7 service and came across Ben Franklin Plumbing. They recommended for us to turn off the water in the whole house (since the master bath had no direct line unfortunately) and quickly scheduled us for a service call the next day. The tech came right on time during the scheduled window and was able to diagnose the problem immediately. He did some extra tests as well just to make sure it was just a busted valve inside the handle and not an issue where he'd have to drill into the drywall. He was friendly, courteous, and efficient. If you are able to self-diagnose the problem on your own, I'd consider buying the part in advance and having them install on your behalf. You will still pay a premium but will save at least $100 by supplying the part yourself ($100 on the service, not counting what you spent on the part). I was in a bit of a jam and while I did order the part in advance, it unfortunately didn't come fast enough before the service call. Something to consider in the future. Like I said, it is not cheap, but when you're in a bind and want it done fast and correctly, definitely call these professionals. read more

Bait and switch. Quoted $88 online, then tried to charge $99. Came out and wanted $400! Yes we are a very small business, but we've had the drain cleaned 8 times in the past 10 years, and it never cost over $80. Service guy was rude to my people. read more

The Benjamin Franklin Plumbing-South Bay has very experienced plumber, technician, and manager. Unlike another company, which would destroy my old bathtub, the Benjamin Franklin Plumbing-South Bay found a smart way to replace my old rusty sewage pipes of the year 1952. read more

See all

Feb. 13, 2026 Called them because 2 family members has used them previously with no issues. I had to have my sewer line replaced. My complaint is not with the workers but with the company itself and there lack of customer service once they complete the work. Work was completed in June, by September I had still not received an invoice for the $ 32,000 of work they had done. I had to call them to get that myself. This February, 8 months after the job work was completed, I got a letter from the city saying that they had never got the city inspection done and I had 3 weeks to take care of it. I contacted the company and was asked to send them a copy of the letter and scheduled an appointment to have that done. I asked if I had to be there because I was going to be out to town. I was told nobody needed to be there and nobody would be bothered. On that day I get a call which I missed by only 5 seconds. I called back and got somebody at the company who knew nothing about anything. She was going to get the technician to give me a call. In the meantime the technician contacted my daughter at work telling her that they had tried several times to call me but I wasn't answering the calls. My son in law who was running a work meeting from home was interrupted by the ringing of the doorbell multiple times and asked for a copy of the permit from the city water people. Neither had any knowledge of anything because I was told they wouldn't need anything from us. Called the company when I got back to talk to a manager to let him know how upset with the complete shit show going on and I am still waiting for that call 3 days later. I will never recommend this company or ever use them for anything ever again read more

I called Benjamin Franklin Plumbers to fix a leak under the sink in my San Jose apartment. I had always had good experiences with them, so it was the first call I made. Technician Jose Diaz was sent out to do the fix. The first quote I was given was for over $2,000! When I expressed shock at this price, Mr Diaz immediately reduced the price by 10%. The quote included $997 to replace the faucet, which wasn't leaking (the faucet cost $65 in Home Depot) and $399 to replace the metal attachment to the sink, which again wasn't leaking (this part costs less than $30 in Home Depot). This wasn't a "quote" but blatant attempt to fleece the customer. The "quote" is attached, you'll notice that on the document Mr. Diaz's Registration Number is: 12345678 (it that even legal?). I eventually hired a professional plumber who fixed the leak in about 20 minutes AND CHARGED ME 1/10TH THE AMOUNT QUOTED BY BENJAMIN FRANKLIN! read more

Benjamin Franklin Plumbing - Plumbing Near Me - San Jose, California

Beware of these guys! For background condo was built in 2016. Came home to dirty water was pouring out of the light fixture in the dining room, below the laundry room, on to the cream colored carpet. When I ran upstairs I found the laundry room had flooded and the stan pipe was over flowing. Im not a plumber but it was logical to guess that the pipe was clogged. So took a video and pics. Ugh!!!! After emergency actions of soaking up flood and catching water with a bucket, I informed my land lord. My appointment was for 9 next morning. Meantime, water stains are appearing on the ceiling and walls in the dining room. Next morning, the plumber, without any tools or checking pipe or without even watching my video of the pipe overflowing immediately diagnosed to saying the pipe was cracked. When asked about maybe being a clog and snaking, he said he can't do that cuz it might damage the crack more. Instead he grabs a moisture meter and starts poking all the dry wall on the dining room to show how wet the walls and ceiling are. He tells me that even tho the house is new, they must have installed a broken pvc pipe. He then says the only way to find the crack is to open the walls in the dining room. Remember, he is only armed with a moisture meter. Does not even care about the laundry room, but does care about how the base boards in the laundry room are wet. He then calls his "restoration team" to come by and tells me that the ceiling is damaged and since it's and internal wall there isn't insulation but the outer 1 outer wall will have insulation. The restoration team comes pokes pronged moisture meter into the walls and ceilings. They talk amongst themselves and say they will need to replace the entire dining room ceiling. I asked about dehumidifiers and fans and they say they can't because the insulation might be wet. I tell them their first guy said there isn't insulation in the internal walls, they sort of hesitate and agree, they say "I guess we can use fans". (Mind you I've lived in many houses that have had leaks and this is the first time where they immediately go to tear out before even attempting to dry) All the while, they still can't tell me what's wrong with the pipe as that's not their job. **it's at this point I realized I'm being taken for a fool**. Of course it isn't your job, your job seems to be screwing people out of money by saying they need work that they really dont. I call my land lord immediately and tell her I do not trust these guys because 3 people have come and no one has actually addressed the issue and they are already talking about replacing the ceiling after poking over 100 holes in the dry wall. It was as if i went to the doctors to say i had a chest pain and think I'm having a heart attack and they decided to try to give me a face lift. Like WTF. I have since purchased a pinless moisture meter some fans and turned on the heater and every day the dry wall get dryer and dryer, to almost completely dry in 1.5 day. I got another plumber and he diagnosed as a clog NOT a crack. He found the clog in 30 min. So either: They don't know what they are talking about. Or They do know what they are talking about and are just trying to screw people over. Either way, do not work with these people. read more

Wayne was friendly, professional, and experienced. He showed up on time, patiently explained my options, and completed the job efficiently. We had a bad clog in the shower drain and Wayne was able to remove it (luckily) without having to open any holes in the walls to expose the pipes. I don't have pictures, it would have been too gross anyways to post. Thank you Wayne! read more

I called them because there was a back up in the shower caused by kitchen sink running at a rental home. A tech came out, scoped main line and told me I had a "belly" in sewer line in street and my drain lines within house were in poor shape. Within 10 mins I received a comprehensive quote for $42,000. The tech explained how he is very experienced and has worked for the company for many many years. He said that he was certain the line under street was issue. They never cleared the problem line in the house. Never really tried to understand the nature of the problem, or ways to resolve. I went to house myself the next day, checked 2 clean outs in front of house and they were all fine, no obstructions at all. The dip or belly in sewer line was not the problem. I voiced my dissatisfaction to the company, they sent out a supervisor (who I liked) to look and he reported I have a crack in a line under house and a leaking toilet flange. He said they would not clear line as pipes too old. He agreed the 24k quote for street tear up was unwarranted. He quoted me $7.7k for new drain lines, I told him I planned to get another quote so be competitive. He said this was best and final price. Benjamin Franklin quoted me $14k for the exact job the day before. I asked how these quotes could be so far off and given when work not required. I never got an explanation other than let me check into that. So it appears all these quoting practices are endorsed and likely encouraged by the company. I decided to have the drain lines replaced ( to eliminate future problems and tenant disruptions) and found another company for 30% less than the $7.7k quote. So their initial quote was $14k for a $6k one day job. Basically, in my opinion, the attractive service call for drain line clearing is really just a way to generate outrageous and inaccurate quotes. I normally do not post negative experiences but the more I reflect on what happened the more it becomes apparent they were really trying to take advantage and do unneeded work with very large price tags. I am fairly savvy but I fear some people may fall for this. I really wanted to find a company I could align with for a number of rental homes when I have issues. Clearly I need to keep looking. read more

In January 2025 I called Benjamin Franklin Plumbing in San Jose for a water leak around my toilet. They charged about $55 to come out and diagnose the problem. They said I needed to replace my toilet and also the water connection. The quote from the technician Edgar Cabrera for the toilet was $1,731.40 (for Drake ECO G-MAX - ADA 17" w/seat) with installation (and old toilet haul away) and the water connection was an additional $295.90 (for Angle stop (1) supply line). I was thinking of doing the repair but a few days later I discovered that the plastic nut holding the water intake pipe to the tank from the water supply was very loose and just tightened it by hand. It has been a month now and there are no more leaks. For full disclosure they also pointed out that the tank rocks slightly and could leak if pushed. I just tightened by hand a wing nut on the left side that holds the tank to the toilet via a metal rod and could not tighten the nut on the right side by hand because it was rusted (I probably could have fixed it with WD40 or a spanner but was too lazy) but that does not contribute to leaks under normal use. I think I saved myself close to $2000 read more

Charged 2000.00 for a new toilet that they said would solve the problem we called on. Did not solve it, wanted another 4,000.00 to "test" for real problem. read more

Responded very quickly and gave a quote. It was a bit on the pricey side. I decided to do the work myself.

Came out and wanted to replace a valve that was working for 600+ then wanted 1200+ to change the regulator. They gave me no options and would not provide a break down of parts and labor. Insisted on checking the water heater even after i told him it was a week old. He saw that the regulator was open and figured we were stuck without water, so he could charge what he wanted. Then when i declined the work i paid the 99$ call charge only to have the company call me aggressively for the next few days telling me he messed up the payment and that i would need to pay again. The plumber had to call the shop to get the price for the work. It seamed like they do not have a hourly rate just what they can soak you for. I got three phone quotes for half what they wanted. read more

Update: John Rossi contacted me immediately and we were able to communicate the issue and worked the problem out! Thanks for the quick response and follow up! read more

Benjamin Franklin Plumbing - This should be illegal. - Plumbing Near Me - San Jose, California

BFP charged me $1,850 for following work. The part is about $150 to $200. The work is about 1.5 hours to 2 hours. I am guessing the labor is about $800 to $900 an hour. Some people recommend me to reach out to the Attorney General and file a complaint. Replaced Closet Flange (Concrete) & reset toilet: Price $1,850 . Empty and remove toilet . Chip concrete around existing flange . Remove old flange . Install new easy set or Cast iron type toilet flange . Reinstall toilet and test . Caulk base of toilet read more

We highly recommend Benjamin Franklin Plumbing South Bay. Excellent service and very knowledgeable technicians. During an inspection, an issue was found with our sewer line and we decided to have it replaced. The first two technicians, Chris and Salvaldor were very courteous and very conscientious about where the line had to be dug up and which plants had to be moved. The next technician, Dendi, set up the line for the inspection and then filled in the trenches for the final step. He made sure it was filled and packed down. He even re-planted a few things we had to dig up! The final step, to fill in the hole where the concrete was cut, was completed by Salvador. His work was so meticulous. The concrete patch looks amazing. He cleaned up the area and made sure it was in good shape before he left. Really great workmanship and service! read more

if I could give zero stars I would. overcharged for work we didn't even need, then broke 2 separate things that they had to come back and fix. avoid at all costs. they are a scam read more

DO NOT do business with them! Hired them for a plumbing problem, they tried selling us on unnecessary repairs, after they didn't do the initial repairs right they returned then told us we owed more money after telling us over the phone it was covered by our warrantee that we had paid extra for. Crooks! Avoid them at all costs - if we could have given zero stars we would have! read more

Last night my parents had an issue with the toilet being clogged. Their ADU is behind our home, and they are 90 and 92 years old. We tried to unclog it using a plunger and a snake. Ultimately, we called Benjamin Franklin Plumbing. We had used them decades ago and the manager stood by his word with service guarantee. We appreciate and honor such business management. I called at 10:30pm and spoke with Tracy. I provided my number and she immediately called me by my first name! Yes, it is me -after all these years and I said I needed help ASAP. She promptly scheduled the appointment between 8am and noon on 1/30/2025. I was called and texted for the service tech to be over at 10a. We met with Matthew and explained the situation. He looked over the areas, inside and outside to view the clean out. Gave us a couple of options and we decided to let him do the work. It was cleared in less than an hour. The cost was the lower of two estimates he provided, best case/worst case estimates depending on what he found during the visit. He was polite and very respectful of my parents. We totally recommend Benjamin Franklin Plumbing for repair and unclogging sewer lines. They are honest, hard working people and stand by their word. Thank you all again for giving us peace of mind and standing by your work and guarantee. read more

Ask for EFREN SANCHEZ of Benjamin Franklin Plumbing San Jose if you want super excellent service in taking care of your plumbing needs. EFREN replaced my 25 year old water heater the same 1/2 day when I called their Service Office phone number for an appointment. EFREN couldn't have been more courteous, professional and knowledgeable during my experience with him replacing my water heater. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH EFREN from a very pleased and satisfied customer! -- Marjorie read more

Benjamin Franklin has always been one of our go too vendors when working with our associations. Matthew is our go to guy who has the best knowledge on how to handle any type of plumbing repairs that are needed. He understands the logistics when it comes to dealing with HOA's which is super helpful. If you ever have a leak, please give them a call, i guarantee you wont be disappointed with their service. read more

A plumber from Benjamin Franklin came out to look at my leaking tankless water heater. Just looked, took a few pictures, and then quoted me over $2,000 to replace the circulation pump. But said that might not fix it, and it would take a few days to get the pump. So it might be smarter to replace the whole unit for $6,000, which they could do right away of course. Later that day, a different plumber called me back, was able to squeeze me in, and replaced the pump that day for $375. The pump itself was $250. Benjamin Franklin tried to scam me. Quoting me over $1,750 for service to install a $250 pump, and then trying to upsell me while they were at it. These guys are crooks, call someone else. read more

Email for Ben Franklin Plumbing? Does any one know of a email address for Ben Franklin Plumbing? All the email from them comes from a no-reply address. I have some insurance papers to send them for a claim. Phone calls go to an answering service, that takes everything down yet no one will call you back. Stay clear. Any business without an email is hiding from something. read more

We had a scheduling problem and management, John Rossi, made it right. I'm pleased to know that they stand by their guarantee. read more

Do not hire this company. If you do call for another quote to compare and hold them accountable for theirs. I had to give them 1 star to post this review although I would not give them any stars. read more

Charges a $79 trip fee for a simple estimate of work. Thanks for not making my elderly mother aware of this beforehand. And the noisy toilet they recommended replacing entirely for $800? The noise is fixed by... holding down the handle when flushing, instead of pushing and letting go. Wow. Scam artists! read more

Called the plumber for a 94 year old friend regarding her toilet leaking. It looked like the leak was from the valve. When the plumber came we were told the entire toilet needed replacement. The toilet itself is in perfect condition, no cracks but I was informed the parts that need replacement is old. We were quoted somewhere around $1300 to replace toilet. That didn't sit right with me so I decided to get a quote from another plumber and even called my boyfriend who's pretty handy. Everything is googleable these days. Turns out we only needed to replace tank bolts which costs $5.27 plus tax at Home Depot. My boyfriend and I fixed it ourselves. Problem solved! How dare they try to take advantage of people especially a senior citizen! read more

I contracted Benjamin Franklin to simply have a garbage disposal replaced. The plumber offered to inspect my drain pipes. He told me my drain pipes were brittle and all needs to be replaced. The quote was $6,000. I trusted the expert and accepted the work.. it turned out my pipes were completely fine and this was an absolute lie. I was taken and do not recommend this company because they are not trusteorthy. They offered only half my money back because they did the work even though it was not necessary. Be warned!!!! have read more

Benjamin Franklin Plumbing - Plumbing Near Me - San Jose, California

See all

I requested an estimate for a shower diverter...the older gentleman stated that they could come the next morning between 0800 and 1300...I told him that wouldn't work because I had a noon appt. I asked if they could make the window 0800 to 1100. He agreed and said that I would received a phone call prior to the plumbers arrival...the plumber called after 1100 and said he would be here in 40 minutes. I called the company soon after and spoke with Ashley...she handled it perfectly and set an appt. for me from 1100 to 1700 the following day. I called the office at 1600 to check on the plumber...they had cancelled my appt. and stated that someone had called me at 1:22 to reschedule...there were no messages on my voicemail...Going with someone else at this point.... read more

Get a second quote, they WAAAAY over estimated the work needed for our repairs. If the estimate was even close to actual, I would not be writing this review. Disappointing too, as we have had positive experience with BF plumbing in the past, but this instance left us severely disappointed. We had technician Martin G. come out to take a look at our rental unit for a popup sink issue and a leak coming from a toilet handle. What we got back after Martin's visit were a few estimates, the high being a complete removal of a pedestal sink and full replacement of a toilet. We're talking north of a $2.5k charge. With that high of an estimate, I just had to go to our rental and take a look at the job for myself. The pop up drain was resolved with a removal of the ball and rod lever arm in the back, wiping it down with CLR, re-greasing it, and resetting the pull arm mechanism. I could see if the sink was difficult to get to making this repair difficult, but I promise you, this was not the case as the pedestal in the back is 9 inches from the wall and open, enough room to get a wrench, a hand or two, a beer can or whatever back there. My point is, there is plenty of room to reach the repair unless you are Andre the Giant or have baseball gloves on. Total cost of this repair was two rags, some CLR cleaning solution purchase, and some plumbing grease. Sink back to full working order, and just absurd that the proposal was to remove the entire sink from the wall to fix an easy lever arm, and then reinstall - $1.3k saved. Other than cleaning out some hair from the drain, I didn't really have to touch the popup assembly much, the assembly that BF wanted to charge ~$300 to fully replace by the way. Now off to tackle this supposedly horror of a toilet. With the estimate, the technician took plenty of pictures of the rear tank of the toilet to show that it was in dire condition with rust and mineral build up all over the place. Sure, areas looked like the dirty water of a toilet as opposed to the clean area. Closer inspection, again, way over estimate of the work needed. Drained the tank, removed and tossed the old flush/floater assembly which was indeed rusty, scrubbed the inside of the upper tank with wire brush for about 2minutes, flushed out the debris, and done, good as new. You can now cook a meal in there, it is so clean. Quick trip to Home Depot for DYI universal flush assembly for $25, followed basic instructions on the box, and job is done. Water was leaking from the handle cause the water level was too high - hardly something difficult for a plumber to figure out. Nothing here required any special skills or know how other than a wrench, a credit card for home depot purchases, and English reading skills to read the instructions (or Spanish, or French, or Japanese - guess they sell this toilet kit in lots of places). Most definitely nothing that required replacing an entire toilet for the BF price of $800. Now the end of my review here. Sure, some of the above steps might be worrisome for folks to tackle on their own, I get that, but NOTHING warranted full replacement as this BF technician recommended. I put this estimate that we got on par with a suggestion to get a new car cause your windshield wiper blades are not working. I expected better from BF, you should too. Update 10/12 - Shortly after posting this review, the South Bay BF representative reached out to me and we had a good conversation. We were offered a fair discount on future work if we choose to call them, so we shall see when the next need arises. Still a cautionary tale to always evaluate the work estimate for yourself or get a second quote. read more

Our main water line broke, no water Benjamin Franklin plumbing came out even on a Saturday and got us up and running in less than one day!!! Most Excellent!!! These dudes were bad ass!!! Ang Ngima Sherpa, and Gylgen Sherpa, we're off the hook! Going beyond helping us get this fixed! You all Rock read more

Almost got scammed by this company. So had a whole house inspection done on 9-2-22 by Matthew ( only did about 1/4 of it ) and told us the water heater had a leak from the inside of it and water damaged to the floor, and jus so happens that his friend was John a restoration company was in the area. John arrived in 10 min and told us that for $1,800 I can do the job. Also Matthew gave us an estimate of $ 3,800 to do the job. So told them hold on as we wanted other estimate. We called Plumbing Care they came out inspected the water heater and floor and found NOTHING wrong with the heater and floor. They probed the floor and found no water damaged, thank god for plumbing care and didn't even charge us!! Now Benjamin won't return our calls for why they lied to us! read more

I called Benjamin Franklin Plumbing for an issue with my main water valve. First their availability was fantastic! They offered to send someone within a few hours, but I opted for the following morning. Although I had a wide service arrival window I received a text message and a call alerting me to technician's arrival after a half hour into it. Field Supervisor Matthew Stymest arrived and he was courteous, professional, and extremely knowledgeable of my issue. He repaired the valve in what seemed like seconds! Okay, it was seconds...I thought my valve was stuck and I did not want to force it open/closed and bend/break it. Matthew walked over and pulled the valve closed like it was nothing. And after all that he managed to not make me feel like a complete idiot. I really appreciated the professionalism and would definitely work with Benjamin Franklin Plumbing again! read more

The tenants suspected CO and asked the city to check. The city found out the problems: oven-venting need to be aligned, as well as the burner of the oven needs repair. They suggested to call plumber and appliance contractor to fix the problems. I have Benjamin Franklin came over today to check out the venting. The technician checked and could not find any problem, but he didn't even turn on the oven to check for any CO. Instead, he called me to say that there is gas leakage in the crawl space as the pipes are rustic and could cause explosion any time. He recommended to replace the gas line for $10,000, which is better than any explosion. He told me the visit itself cost $199 if I don't do any work, though it says $79 on internet. When I asked the technician for proof of the gas leakage, he hung up. The tenants told me the technician left without saying anything, or leaving a note. I was concerned about the potential explosion and wanted to talk to the technician for more details. He didn't pick up the phone and I called the office. They told me someone would get in touch with me regarding the issue. I need someone to confirm the potential gas explosion. But no one called after several hours. To no avail, I called the city again and told them what the technician told me. They sent out someone to check for gas leakage immediate. They mentioned that most likely the contractor tried to upset. But for peace of mind, they would check for gas leakage. The results from the city came back that there is no gas leakage. Please be aware of this company - they don't bother to find the problem and up sell you something that cannot fix the problem. read more

Let me start with the scheduling and communication process with Ben Franklin plumbing was very good 4 of 5. Where i score vendor Ben Franklin down is when i got the bill it was over $600 for two hours of work. When i asked if the labor late was $300/hr or more i received no follow up communication. I know the parts for the repair were $30-40 tops for the repair so the significant cost is not materials related. read more

I had a water leak under my house and called Benjamin Franklin Plumbing. Matthew came out to assess my problem. He was out here within the hour. He helped with getting the right people out here to correct the water damage so that he could repair the plumbing. He also helped me get the information to my insurance company so that I can get my claim started. He was absolutely professional, quick and efficient. I had to make several calls to him and he was always willing to help. They gave exceptional service. I would definitely call them again. Thank you Matthew Stymest and Benjamin Franklin Plumbing read more

They were fast to respond and come Out to our house. They worked with us till the problem was solved even though it was a bigger job than anyone expected. They kept us informed on the progress and what the plan was at each step. One guy even made an extra stop to confirm the work has been completed. They hard to dig up our part of our driveway and they made sure to Ghent the exact matching cement and gravel so u can not see the patch. They were also the nicest guys! They even liked our dogs! We highly recommend them. read more

I had a water leak from my ceiling, Benjamin Franklin plumbing service responded quickly and sent an engineer over to check the issue promptly. The engineering name is Takai, he troubleshooted the issue quickly and was able to find the root cause, he then fixed the issue and did a regression test to ensure no more leaking and water (hot/cold) runs properly. Takai's service was excellent, and he was able to present the issue and root cause to me clearly. thanks!!! read more

A Benjamin Franklin plumber was able to come promptly to assess an urgent situation of a toilet not flushing and shower valve leaking. But then the plumber jumped to the conclusion that the only solution was to replace the toilet for over $1000 and to break through through wall to replace the shower valve at a cost of $2400 plus engaging another contractor to repair and paint the wall. Fortunately I got the sense the plumber did not know what he was doing or was overselling or both. I got a second opinion from a different plumbing company, which was able to address both issues with minor tweaks for under $500 total. So all I was stuck with was the $79 diagnostic fee from Benjamin Franklin and the inconvenience of having to schedule two plumbers. Never again for Benjamin Franklin though. read more

Matt came out quickly to diagnose the problems, and Pablo and Salvadore came out promptly afterwards and did a great job replacing the shower valves and installing new hardware. Everyone always wore masks even while they were working, which is reassuring in these times. They also always wore protective shoe covers while walking inside the house as to not attract dirt in. Pablo and Salvadore were very meticulous and made sure everything was installed correctly. In addition, Pablo gave me a lot of good instructions and insight on how to maintain and take care of the installed items in the future. Overall a great experience and highly recommend this team. Thanks! read more

Need to provide a lot of personal information for a price quote for just replacing a garbage disposal. Why? Apparently someone needs to come out JUST to tell me, yes, you need to replace it. I can understand for other issues, maybe, but not even a general pricing range? read more