Who would honestly want to buy anything from these "business owners" who are bashing a past customer for not purchasing a car from them? They are disgusting, lying, and sketchy people and I will continue to update and leave every single 1 star rating for you on every website that associated with your shop. I hope this place goes out of business. If this even helps one person turn away from this place and goes somewhere else instead then I'm glad. Everyone: please, read past reviews from this shop, there are multiple websites and comments from real customers, also read the owners replies and notice how rude, inconsiderate, and unprofessional they are. DO NOT GO HERE. DO NOT GO HERE. DO NOT GO HERE. Save yourself and spend your money elsewhere. I have first had absolute terrible experience here and will never recommend anyone to this dump. read more

I bought a 2005 Subaru Outback, it was listed on Craig's list as a 2005 Subaru Outback XT, so there's one ding, wrong car. I bought this car, being told that it had no issues and it was well maintained, while this is true, as I drove it off the lot, it handled poorly, and had some issues. I checked the tires and the tread was warn on the inside of one side LITERALLY down to the wire! And it was leaking oil. I called and they told me many thing about me being wrong. I brought it to them, KNOWING there was a head gasket leak, and they took it for a couple of days, and put new tires on it (Ling Longs) and then also gave me a oil change "promising me" it was just a leak from the oil filter. Well anyone that knows ANYTHING about cars, especially Subarus should know, you DONT change just the front tires and leave the back different, it will DESTROY the transmission, and differentials! Well I had to fight some more and ended up having to pay for tires I the back, which 4 months later are worn to the ground..... As of still I need a head gasket replacement, because of the incompetency of the individuals working there, unknowing of the fact that a head gasket leak means it's coming from the head gaskets and not the oil filter. I will never buy from this place again and I STRONGLY recommend against buying a car here. read more

First Choice Auto - Bad head gaskets I was told "are not bad, it's the oil filter". - Auto Loan Providers Near Me - Sacramento, California

I am giving this dealership a positive review. It's a used car lot, and they aren't selling the best used cars, but they have a decent selection, and if you examine the car carefully before purchase there are some good ones to be found. We purchased a six year old car with low mileage for a very reasonable price. It had new tires and a new battery. The Carfax showed prior damage to the rear of the car not due to an accident, and I could not find it on the car, so I believe it was repaired properly. I think there was additional damage not on the Carfax due to a repaired headlight bracket and some missing fasteners under the hood, but I don't consider those major. The staff on site were friendly, and once we started the purchase process, we were finished fairly quickly. I've spent a lot longer in a new car dealership AFTER agreeing on a purchase price waiting for their finance guy, then enduring the final sales push for additional services. There was none of that here, which is a good thing. This was a few weeks ago, and after cleaning a corroded battery terminal that was causing the battery to drain quickly, the car has been trouble free. What it comes down to is this - examine the car closely before buying. Have it inspected by an expert. Know its value - both to you, and in the market. Be aware that there may be a few minor issues - it is a used car, after all. We went in with our eyes open. We knew we'd need to spend a few dollars on miscellaneous repairs before it was "perfect". We got a low mileage, well equipped car for a great price. I'm a satisfied customer. read more

So a used car purchase is no walk in the park and really no guarantee you will get a new car at a used price. Keeping that in mind I thought I would look at what seemed to be a good deal. The Carfax came up clean but the Carfax doesn't show things that are not reported. In my case the car I looked at obviously had accidents where Carfax showed none. The same car desperately needed brakes and rotors and the car shook badly as it idled. To be fair the owner offered to replace the brakes and pads at no charge because he said he couldn't sell a car "legally"? with bad brakes. Still if you have a mechanic on site and there were legal issues why wasn't it done to begin with. The price of the car on their website has since got a higher price tag. I assume the higher price means the brakes were fixed? So you may get a good deal here but a little knowledge or bring a mechanic. read more

So we got a car from these people. Toyota Camry 2014 I dont remeber who the seller was. But he is incredibly defensive and rude. When we bought the car, he did not tell us the car was a rental car. He told us it was an one owner car. He showed us the log book, everything seemed fine. We were dumb, as we should have clarified the details before we bought the car. At that time we desperately needed the car for my husbands work, so we bought it. Not even 3 months now, we have an issue with the car's gear box. We took it to Toyota dealership for a check up, and they told us that we need to take it to the people we bought it from since it has not been over 3 months we bought it. So I gave a polite call to them; the guy who picked up the phone (I assume is the same guy, as per his tone of voice and attitude), went off at me telling me it is not their problem as the cars manufacturers werrenty should cover our "problem". When I told him not to be defensive as I have only called to discuss the problem, he told me "well you should go to a different toyota dealership". You guys (first choice auto) are incredibly rude, and not at all about helping people. And I could tell how unprofessional you guys are by the way you have reacted when I called and also by the way you have respondes to some of the other unfortunate people who have left you a review. I do belive you guys are mean sprited. Please improve your honesty level. And whoever it is the guy who keeps screaming he has 30+ years of experience in the feild, to you I say get your act together. An experienced person as u claim urself to be does not behave the way you do. read more

First Choice Auto - He stuck a stocker on top of this area on logbook. This is where we would have been able to tell if the owner was an individual or a rental. - Auto Loan Providers Near Me - Sacramento, California

It just keeps getting worse and worse. I bought a car a few months ago from here...for what I thought was a great deal. When I bought it there was an error message on the dashboard of my car. The guy said it was because the battery on my key fob was low. He said he would mail me a new battery. Never came. So I go into my local Nissan dealership and they tell me that that message is obviously not a low battery and I have the wrong key fob for my car. It is super expensive to replace so I call these people and they tell me Nissan is lying to me and trying to get money from me. NO offer to send me the right key fob. That SAME DAY Nissan lets me know the car that was sold to me has 4 RECALLS. 4 that were never fixed. Although my Carfax only had one on it. Fast forward to yesterday and a horrible screeching noise it coming from the car. I take it in. The brakes are SO bad that the dealership would have noticed a few months ago. My rotors were toast. Oh....and the plastic sheeting that protects the guts of my car is ripped off and everything is exposed. The people fixing my breaks asked if I bought this car from a legal dealership. I dunno....did I?!? Who knows at this point. I have been letting everyone know...stay away!!! BBB will be notified. read more

Worst car experience ever! They ignored us when we drove in and were walking around so we went into the office. No greeting. The man at the desk kept working and after a moment he asked if we'd been helped yet. They won't let you test drive unless you get approved first, which no dealership did to us. He didn't want to look at the car with us and answer any questions. He just told us the car was unlocked. One dealership lost my license, so we only have our ID and most dealerships would look up and confirm the information. He refused, so we walked away. We had cash in hand and he wouldn't work with us. I'm glad we didn't buy from him because we went down the street to another dealership and got a perfect car with better mileage and a way better sales person. Clarification: We had a paper copy of our license from the DMV as well as our regular ID and were still not allowed to test drive. We had cash in hand (trying to pay in full) so there was no need for proof of income. Upon seeing the dealers response and reading past reviews, I definitely dodged a bullet. The man who replied to my previous review was not even there when we went so I do not see how he can even say what we did or did not bring. So glad we bought elsewhere. Since the dealer wants to go back and forth...The other dealers were able to look us up since we had both (hence how we were able to buy a car on a different lot right after leaving yours). You were not there to even say what we had or not. As you can see from my original post, we had cash in and were not looking to finance. I said nothing of proof of income, you just added that in you response when you never even spoke to us. The person in your office didn't even let us speak and cut us off as soon as we said ID. Other companies were able to look us up when the license was first left at another dealership until we got the paper one from the dmv. So whether we had the paper one or not, we could have purchased and brought you copy of the license when it came in like we were able to do at the next place. But like I said, based on the other reviews and seeing as you have no sense of good customer service and all this time to reply to yelp reviews, we dodged a bullet. So glad we didn't purchase from here. I would never buy from a place that did not let us test drive first and from reading other reviews, many people were not allowed to test drive until after they were approved which makes no sense. Sounds shady to me. Bad customer service all around. read more

Excellent experience, great people and willing to work hard for you. 4 months later, My Chevy is still running smooth with no issues. I got a really great deal and I am happy I stopped by The guys here are super nice !!!! read more

these people are scammers! they sold me a Cadillac Escalade four years ago, and the radio had antitheft activated on it along with all of the warning lights. The owner said give them a few days and they'll have everything fixed. I have to wait in for a month. They called me and told me to come pick up the vehicle which the radio still had antitheft activated on it. They told me to take the car to the dealership and they should be able to remove the antitheft off the radio. I took the truck to the dealership just to find out that the radio in the car belongs to a whole different year and a whole different model Cadillac Escalade and it's not compatible with the one that they put it in. After driving truck for a few months all of the original lights that was on, the dashboard came back, and all of a sudden and the owner has a bad attitude. from 2020 till now the truck has been unable to drive in after spending six months at the Cadillac dealership in Walnut Creek. They can't figure out what was done to the truck read more

In June 2015 my husband and I purchased our "new" used car. We were super excited as we were promised the vehicle was in great shape and that their mechanics check the vehicle as well. We drove the car off the lot and 3 weeks later the check engine like came on, we took it to the manufacturer shop and they gave us news we did not want to hear .... repairs that would total over $7000, we financed the vehicle for only $10,000. We called to see if they can do anything to help and were quickly rejected and left with our car not drivable and still making timely payments. DO NOT PURCHASE A CAR FROM THEM. My husband and I are lost without words. Sam was not helpful and did not care. Those who are in the same boat. File a INV-172A with the DMV and file a civil junction. NEW BUYERS PLEASE DO NOT SHOP HERE. read more

My daughter and I were shopping for cars for a while and stumbled upon this place. We looked at 3 different cars at their lot that were well within our budget. The cars are well taken care of. No salesperson was ever pushy. As women, it's often difficult to be taken seriously when purchasing a car. They let us take the cars for a test drive and also let us ask questions. They even had the carfax available. I'm happy to have made a purchase here. Everyone treated us great and the car is a great buy! read more

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE! I purchased a care from them and they lied about the actual price of the car. I asked all the right questions, but 3 days later I get a call from the bank saying my 2900.00 loan was 7200.00! The price of the car was different then the advertised price because I'm financing it. That is FRAUD! I've been fighting with them ever since. Filed with the BBB, and MATHEW said they would give me the 1000.00 back but I wanted 1000.00 plus interest that I've had to pay on it or a new contract. So they've been ignoring my calls. Scammed and thieves! Small claims is the next. (Have to pick a star) read more

First Choice Auto - Auto Loan Providers Near Me - Sacramento, California

I bought a car from them and had a GREAT experience. Adam is very knowledgeable and was always available and helpful. The car had a shimmy and he had it aligned, at *NO* extra charge to me, before I picked it up. The entire process was smooth. I definitely recommend them! read more

Don't support these guys. We were lied to about the vehicle we bought. Then they didn't even have it smoged at purchase and were back peddling because they knew they screwed up. They lied constantly to me and even admitted they sold me something that leaked oil. When I drove back for them to check they took my car and smogged it and then became very aggressive. Basically telling me to get lost. Please. Spare yourself. These guys are deceitful. Go somewhere else!! Save the nightmare these guys belong in jail. read more

Didn't happen to get the names of the gentlemen that helped us but everyone was very nice! Not pushy at all! They have a great inventory of cars and from what we could see, overall great pricing! We found a car that we had been looking for and they had it listed well below market value. We thought it was too good to be true and were hoping that the pictures they took weren't of all the "good" angles. We had just come from a lot that had the same car, same year, same price, great photos and it was BEAT! Car was just as they had presented online. Let my husband and I test drive it individually. Gave us an even better deal. In and out within an hour. I've read the review. Come on people, these are used cars...adjust your expectations accordingly and all should be good. Also due diligence goes along way. read more

Worse experience we have trying to purchase a car with this guys, they gave me a price cost for the car I was interested and there were some issues with the car, they promised me fix all details, I pointed to a sales person in the office. A week later call them and find out the car is ready but I have to pay like $800.00 more from the original price they quoted me. If you do business with this guys be careful, they promise you and guaranteed you a price and you go back to get the car they want to charge you more money because they have to spend money to fix the car, that's no the right way con conducted a business. I personally NEVER EVER recommend anyone to do business with them. read more

Recently purchased a truck here and couldn't be more pleased with the quality of professional service I recieved. The team at First Choice has gone above and beyond to insure that we were happy with our purchase. My credit is less than stellar to say the least but that was no problem with their team of lenders. They were able to get me financing on my own without a co-signer and at a decent interest rate with a small down payment. Just want to say thank you to First Choice and the team there. I will definitely be sending business that way in the future. Thank you, Brian, 2007 Dodge Ram read more

Great dealership! Answered all my questions, Sam truly made my car buying experience easy! Thank you so much guys:)

WARNING!!! - DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS DEALERSHIP!!! I worked with Rick and Sam, both a couple of scam artists, who agreed to a price on a truck. I went to the bank to get the money, called and spoke to Rick to confirm the price and we made a solid agreement for me to purchase the truck, but on the way back to the dealership with the cash, Rick called and said they sold it to someone else (probably for more money). I drove over an hour to buy the truck that I had been talking to Rick about on the phone for several days, but he made no apologies for stringing me along all the way to their dealership, to the bank and back, before selling the truck right out from under me. These people have absolutely no morals or integrity, and will scam you if you give them a chance. I strongly caution you against doing business with them. The only silver lining, is that after this experience I read some of their other reviews and realized I may have dodged a bullet, since they sell garbage vehicles and have no customer loyalty once they have your money. With so many other dealerships in the area, your best bet is to shop somewhere else. As you might read in this dealer's response, they like to fight and argue with their customers and make all kinds of outlandish accusations, and even call names... The bottom line is they agreed to a price (THEIR price, not the price I asked for), agreed to sell me the truck, and even after I told them I was on the way back from the bank with the money, they went ahead and sold the truck... Probably for more money... Because they care more about money than they do about their customers or about their own integrity... I'm glad that they decided to have this argument with me in public so that any prospective customers can see exactly how they operate... You don't need to take my word for it, just see how they treat me and you'll know what they're all about. By the way, I ended up finding a much better truck at a much better price. I guess everything happens for reason, and you know what they say about karma! read more

These guys are awesome! They went above and beyond to make sure that I got the car I wanted as a first time buyer. Tarek in the office was very helpful with getting me an affordable loan through Chase Bank. Even though we hit a few bumps with getting me financed they really went out of their way to make it work out for me in the end. They really tried hard for me which was so reassuring considering this was my first time buying a car on my own. I wish I could remember everyone's names that helped make it possible. I can't say enough good things about this experience. I'm definitely going to be a repeat customer if need be!! read more

I gave this place a great review but now I am taking it back. I bought my car and the car itself is fine. The price is reasonable. The people were friendly. Nothing wrong there... so far. But this is where the good stuff stops. I paid an extra $200 dollars for them to process my registration and license plates. It was two weeks before my temporary license plates were to expire and I had not gotten any registration papers, tags or license plates. I called them and they said they would call me back and never did. Two days later I called them again and I was told the plates and registration and tags were on their way. They never showed. Two weeks later, I called them again and they said "oops" the paperwork is still on the desk and they will process it right away. By now my temporary tags had expired but I had to drive my car, it's the only one I have. I call them again and explain that my tags are now expired and they were supposed to have all of this done by now. It had been months since I bought the car and they didn't get this in order. I call again, they have me speak to another guy who claimed the DMV was being audited and it was going to take another week. I call back in a week and they said that they have not been able to speak to anyone yet. I call back three days later. They tell me it must have gotten lost in the mail and they would call me right back. They never did. The next day I call again and they said this takes time and there are fees they need to pay, then I speak to another man who said everything is on its way and to expect it in two weeks. Three weeks went by and nothing. I call again and I speak to a different guy who said to text him my information and he would look up the paperwork. Two days later after I texted him complaining about my situation, he said "already checked with the DMV, there should be no more restrictions on your license plate" I am a month over the expiration date on my temp license plates. I finally got the registration tags and papers over a week ago, but NO license plates. I paid them an extra $200 dollars for this. I could get a ticket or even get my car impounded over this and none of it is my fault nor is there anything I can do to fix it. I am seriously considering legal action. read more

I had an agreement to buy a car that I lined up two days ahead of time. I had to drive two hours from Lake Tahoe to Sac and confirmed the day before and the morning of that I was on my way to buy it. About 20 minutes away I received a missed call from the dealer (I was driving, couldn't answer), but no voicemail. I happened to check my email and was told the car was already sold. I understand they were under no legal obligation to sell me the car, but they only gave me $300 off the listed price, and they knew I was on my way to buy it, and likely sold it for the listed price. Could they have at least left me a voicemail and given me a chance to match the price? Total waste of time. read more

I bought a rdx from them and didn't even give full tank gas on the new ride I got.it was all the way on empty. Bad service and will alway try to take ur money. I would not go there for a car again. read more

Just another sketchy dealer, didn't even take the time to clean the interior of the car I went there specifically to look at! Also the dealership could not tell me whether or not the timing belt and water pump was actually replaced on a car that advertised online as having that done specifically.. I would pass this dealer up if you are able to. read more

The customer service was easy and fast because I came in with cash. I previously test drove the car. I had two things that needed to be addressed with the car. One was the heater not working and the other was the glove box, the door was falling open. After a few minutes they came back to me and said the glove box was fixed and that the heater worked. That I just wasn't working it properly. I didn't feel right about that answer, but still went ahead with the purchase because I believed them. At the end of me signing the contract he had problems with his printer and had me sign that the car had no reportable issues. Well, within the first month I have replaced the following items, 1. Thermostat, 2.Tire pressure monitor, 3. (4) Tires - The car came with 4 different tires on it and 3 were worn., 4. Heater core needs to be replaced - Windows are fogging up, (Ordered part, replacing this month) 5. (2) rear speakers (looking for replacements to have installed) 6. a new transmission. I called and spoke with Sam when the transmission issue happened and his responded that "you" were buying a used car. I asked if this falls under the lemon law and he stated that it only applies to new cars. (In other words tough luck) I know that you get what you pay for and take a shot in the dark when purchasing a USED car, but you expect that your car will at least run well for the first 6 months and not have to start repairs in the first month of the purchase. It doesn't matter who you purchase a USED car from, it matters what you do before buying the car. Pay the extra funds to have the car checked out by a certified mechanic. and look for business' reviews on line. I understand a certain low percentage of people can be negative, but the majority should be positive about the product and service. I didn't use my own advice and have ended up spending as much in repairs as I did to buy the car. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the car, BUT I just wish it wouldn't have had so many issues in the first month. My mistake!!! You live and learn. read more

For a as is car dealerships go they have been great I was a Lil short they financed me I found one issue and they fixed it before I picked it up. There were a few others I didn't catch but I also did not take it to a mechanic as I'm pretty hands on myself so I did my research and all the model year issues were good. It was a good deal. I shopped around and got my first choice, of cars I had looked at, here at 1st Choice auto. My only recommendation is they make sure each car has two keys and if not then order or get one for the buyer. This would make them stand out better amongst their competitors. I do recommend this dealership they have been understanding and over all its been a pleasant experience. read more

STAY AWAY FROM THIS PLACE! There are so many better places to buy a car. The owner will LIE, CHEAT and SCAM you. Don't be fooled! The 5 star reviews are from people that WORK there or know the owner. BE WARNED.... if you buy a car from this place, you will have nothing but problems with it. read more

Absolute worst choice i have ever made. Bill, the owner of First Choice automotive has ripped my family off terribly everytime we've taken a vehicle in. The last time my father brought his work van in to have the transmission looked at or possibly rebuilt/flushed, Bill charged 3600$ to rebuild it, but said it was a brand new transmission. Come to find out after the transmission completely slamming into gear and not shifting, it was only rebuilt, not new like he had said. Bill gave 1300$ back but not full reimbursement. Never again will we affiliate with First Choice Automotive. read more

I had purchased a 2002 Mercedes Cl 600 ...I have to admit I made a quick decision by purchasing this car...they had replaced the water pump . Unfortunately the next day the car still had a water pump issue ...long story short I appreciate the fact that they where willing to 1. PUT ME IN A NEW VEHICLE IF THAT WAS WHAT I WANTED TO DO AND 2.EVEN THO I HAD DECLINED FOR 2 DAY GRACE PERIOD OF RETURNING THE CAR THEY STILL ALLOWED ME TO DO SO. I Ended up returning the car and took a $350 hit which I'm ok with because I personally made a quick decision....But Sam (Front Desk) and the guys are people you can trust..They are a family bussiness and at the end of the day they are REASONABLE , HAVE MORALS, GOOD INTENTIONS AND they are TRUST WORTHY ...I WILL DEFINITELY RECOMMEND THESE GUYS BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY WILL NOT SCREW YOU OVER . read more

These guys sold me a great Toyota Prius at a great price. They greeted me and let me check out the cars with no rush. When I had questions during the paperwork, they had answers. I had a good experience. Inspect the car any time you're buying used. I'd recommend them. read more

I love this dealership! The sales people are not pushy or demanding. The atmosphere is great, and the entire process of picking and buying a car takes less than an hour. They have a lot of banks they work closely with. This is my second car from these guys and I will continue to go back again and again. They have great quality cars with low miles. read more

They're very accommodating and they answered all the questions I had. For a first time car buyer, they really helped me out. Rick and Sam were especially helpful. I also got a great deal on a wonderful car! They had great service and were super nice. Definitely go here if you want a reliable used car. read more

My husband and I had a great experience here. We got a fair price and friendly service. We met Rick, Sam, Ash and Michael - all great guys. They made some fixes as promised on the used vehicle we purchased. They pointed out details with the car that we didn't notice and they were very knowledgeable about the model we were getting. They worked with us while we were getting financing through our credit union. Michael met us there, and took the time to wait while all the paperwork was being completed. They even gave my husband a ride back to the lot to pick up our car, so I could be on my way. Overall, it was an easy and enjoyable used-car buying experience. read more

I personally had a very good car buying experience working with Sam. I bought a low mileage 2017 Honda Fit for a very good price, as my local Honda dealer agreed. The price was online (at CarGurus), so no haggling at all. Love that! I really appreciated Sam's friendly but low key approach. I never felt pressured or rushed. He helped me learn the dashboard controls and reset the bluetooth for my phone. The car mats were missing. He promptly found some and put them in. The owner's manual was also missing, he ordered it at no cost to me, and it has arrived. Gas was very low, and he added half a tank before I left. The car had several minor issues which I discovered in the first week, but it was still under factory warranty, so no problem. Sam was clear that the car was sold "as is." Here or anywhere, I can ONLY recommend buying a used car that is either still under factory warranty OR has just had a full diagnostic, so you know of any issues. You do need one or the other! read more

I live in Los Angeles, BF works in the bay area and needed a car. Alex made it very pleasant. Got all the info I needed and the paperwork. BF went into the dealership, tested the car, signed and was out of there with his car. Great experience. Karen read more

I went in to purchase a 2000 Honda Civic and i got great customer service, They answered any questions i had about the car and any other questions i had about future problems with the car. Their car prices are extremely reasonable and the car has had no problems since i had purchased it. The only problem i had was an oil change and it only took a couple of hours to get fixed. They are very quick at their job and efficient on fixing your car problems. This was one of the best car dealerships i have ever been to read more

This place is amazing! Very friendly staff! Very good cars! If I have any questions, they have the right answers. Honest and well rounded people !!! read more

The guys at First Choice Auto made the entire car buying process a wonderful experience! From the moment I walked in the door. Thank you so much!!! LOVE my new car :)) read more

You are full of LIES!! The lightbulb did not go out after we left your dealerships! It wasn't working while we were there! And we did NOT cancel the warranty 2 weeks later! All YOU do is LIE! We cancelled the warranty because the piece of shit wouldn't cover the repairs so why keep a piece of shit warranty! Where the hell do you get that we canceled to save money!! You and your trashy dealership are garbage and you know it that's why you're always so defensive when someone leaves a review you don't like! read more

This place isn't trust worthy. I came here to buy a car due to my lack of credit, not poor credit. I was told that I needed a specific amount for a down payment and that was acceptable. We were all on the same page; the following day the man working there was going to contact me to let me know how much my monthly loan amount would be. The next day I still hadn't heard from him so I called him and he had completely forgot about the situation. I explained again and he said he would call me back. The process should have been really simple since he had already ran my credit. I decided to go in there office and was greeted by Sam. Sam told me the man who was helping me had no business telling me what kind of down payment I needed, because he isn't a finance guy. Sam tells me I need over $1000 more than what I was previously told. Sam wasn't polite nor understanding and if he is the manager he shouldn't have someone working there that isn't qualified. Not only was the service bad but most of these cars are not in good. These cars were not taken care of by previous owners and the mechanics that are supposed to check these cars by law before selling them missed major but simple fixes such as adding an air filter. I wouldn't recommend even trying to work with these people. read more