I've been shopping for a Truck for my Son. it's not my first Rodeo and like many, I hate the process we must go through to get the best deal at a good rate. On 2-4-2016 I saw an ad for a Tacoma Truck, I took a Picture of it so I can show them what I want and the terms they posted about it. Payments, Down, etc... I had an appointment with Tammy who seemed nice over the phone. When I arrived she was with another client (Understandably) so she Introduced me to a gentleman named Osy. We saw the car, Liked it and started the Process of negotiation. Let me be clear, I didn't try to lower the price at all, I saw the ad and wanted that same deal they offered. We sat down, and he took out a paper and started writing my Information... So far so Good. I explained my Son wanted the special of a lease with option to buy and we were willing to put The down the amount on the ad amount and meet all the terms. Before we even got this far, he wrote down a payment of $850.00 (The add said $350.00+ tax and Licence) I explained that was too much and didn't make any sense. He told me he had to write that down, because his Boss want's to see that number and we negotiate from there because that is the average Price on the lease and Toyota does not have any Specials or Incentives for a Tacoma Truck. Here is where the scam starts! I said okay, no problem, but the car advertised is on the Lot, the Price was agreeable, the terms are what he needs. but let's get through this so we can finish the transaction and move on. He asked what I wanted to pay, I said Full Price per the ad and payments just like the ad says. He told me there was no such ad so I took out my Cell hone and showed him the ad Keys of Van Nuys has with the same Truck he showed me. $39k $4,692.00 at signing, and $350.00 per month. He was surprised to see this and wen't to see his Manager. He returned with an offer of $8k Down and $650.00 per mo. I explained I didn't want to go back and forth, I want the Truck the ad shows for the Price and terms his dealership advertised. He again said there was no ad, so I went online to there system and showed it directly to him. We went back to his Manager, and after a few more minutes, asked to see my Phone and take it to his manager. (I'm sure they already know this) but I complied anyway... After a few more minutes he comes back with his manager, He sat down and explained that was the INTERNET Price, and can't honor the ad because I walked inn and didn't apply online. I explained my Smart Phone can do this right now or I can go back home and apply online. He then said it's FICO Driven and I wouldn't get that Price. (Keep in mind no credit was run at this point yet nor was my FICO score asked) The kept asking if my Credit was Good, amd if I had an 850 FICO. I explained it's not an issue My FICO is fine and I'm sure it meets or exceeds there requirement. Little Background on me... I'm a Loan Officer in Real Estate, 33 years of Experience and self Employed. (They don't know this yet) So I asked what most people would ask... Why can't I get this, if you have the Inventory, The Truck is here for sale, Credit and Down is no issue? He then said it's an Internet Price only. (No longer a FICO issue) Again, I said I can apply online, he told me I won't get it. Because of Inventory... So now, (It's an Inventory issue.) I explained again it's here, it's not sold and you have Inventory, so I just don't understand why I can't get it. He says again it's an Internet Price! LMBOL!!! I then asked, Why advertise this if you won't honor it? He then Denied they did! LOL Again, I went online and pulled the ad and showed him the details... He then back peddled and blamed it on the online ad only. (Full Circle) so... I called him on it. I explained I will simply apply online and wait for the reply. Here is where it get's worse... He told me if I do this, he will deny it, and there is no way I will get this Truck and the advertised ad! So it's not a FICO issue, It's not a Inventory issue, It's not a Financial Issue. so it must be a False advertising issue! He then became offended, and said they don't false advertise. So then if it's not any of the issues they said, Why won;t they Honor the ad??? So I asked again, Why won;t you Honor the ad??? Honor the Ad!!!! At this point he became Angry, and told me that regardless what I do, he will Deny my transaction because they can sell that truck for a much Higher price to anyone else that walks inn. and that's why they won;t honor the ad! So at this point we said, Thank you and walked out. Here is my advise to anyone looking for a Tacoma Truck... DON'T BUY ONE!!! Walk away and Wait until they get over stocked and can't move them. They know people want it, so they Hold back the Inventory to drive up the Prices. I have visited a few Toyota dealerships already, and the scam they do is Force a low supply to Drive the prices up, then Sell you the Truck at $4-$10k above Manufact read more

The fuel door got stuck for some reason and I couldn't get it to open so I just took my '06 Honda Civic EX to Automotive Instincts this morning. Before I took my car to them I did my research on Yelp, read reviews and even went to their website, http://911honda.com. Wow, they even guaranteed 2yr/24k miles warranty (as of 8/14/09) and most of the reviews on Yelp were great. Looked very promising and they were located very close to my home. It's always a gamble to choose an auto shop but based on the info available, I decided on them as I was in desperate need of opening the fuel door to re-fuel. Here is what happened. 1) As soon as I arrived at their location, Al (customer service guy) came out and tried to help me to get it open without any prior quote but nothing happened. He asked me if the car was still under the warranty. My 3yr manufacture warranty just had past. Proceeded to quote. So far, so good. Or is this just a customer service procedure in their manuals? Not sure yet at this point. 2) Al quoted me $90 for the diagnostics & 1st hour of labor. Probably a standard charge but I felt that it was pricey to fix the fuel door. 3) They got it open but I was informed that it would take more time to fix it so that it would actually open again if it was shut. Labor was extended and I was told my charge was now $135. Really??? 4) I asked Al if my repair would get a warranty as it is advertised on their website (as of 8/14/09), and he said the work they were doing was not a "repair" as they were "adjusting" the cable that was connected to open the fuel door. At this point, I felt as if he was dodging my question. I asked again. This time he said, to completely fix the issue, I would have to replace the cable and that would cost me $350. Ok, wait a minute. Not only was he not guaranteeing the warranty which they advertise on their website, he now was telling me about a possibility of additional cost on top of already over an estimate charge. First of it all, for the business whom has a web adress of "http://911honda.com", they seemed to be struggling with my Honda parts. 5)I told Al how I was not comfortable with the idea of not getting warranty for $135 worth of "adjustment" I was paying for. I was basically screwed if the same problem was to occur again, let's say a week later. So he made me a deal. He proposed 2yr/24k miles warranty in exchange that I would spend $350 to replace the cable next time I'd come for the same problem and he would reimburse me today's $135 then. I thought, "What kinda warranty is this? Why do I even have to fight for the warranty which they promise on their website?" but I agreed to it as I had been there for over 2 hours and I still had to get to work. My assessment of their business: For 3 stars being "average", I give them 2 stars as they did not meet my standard. Here is the reason why. As many other reviews say, I agree that this place was better than any other auto shops I have ever been to in terms of being clean, proper and professional. But when they did not guarantee the warranty right away as their advertisement said they would on their website (as of 8/14/09), I felt as if I was getting screwed. Their argument was that the work they did on my civic's fuel door was an "adjustment", not a "repair" since nothing was replaced. That right there was a scandalous enough statement to me, enough to give them 2 stars because it is a fraudulent act when the business does not honor what they advertise publicly. On a side note, I usually always go out of my way to go to Jomag Auto in Silver Lake for any car troubles because they are truly the best & honest mechanic I have ever known. But as I was in desperate need of re-fueling this morning, I did not have much choice but to choose Automotive Instincts which was only 5 minutes away from my home. Perhaps, I still should have put in effort to go to Jomag Auto after all. read more

I'm in the credit "rebuilding phase" from stupid decisions I made when I was younger. I figured I'd check out some smaller hole in the wall places that would easily finance me. The best rate I got was 10%, but when they did the numbers it didn't add up. TIP: If you don't have a car loan calculator on your phone, get one. It's free and pretty damn accurate. I found myself across the street from Keyes Toyota looking for a used Prius. They didn't have one and the salesman told me to check out the inventory across the street. I figured for sh**s and giggles I would. I was immediately helped by Djamil. He tried to get me into a $19,000 car. I told him my situation with credit and that I needed a small monthly payment. A payment that I really wouldn't notice since my gas was going to go from $250 a month to about $60 if I could get the Prius. I informed him there was no way he was going to be able to meet my needs. He said "Let's go do some numbers." I walk into the shark tank (it feels like one when buying a car sometimes). I was already prepared to deal with multiple people. It's part of the car game. I wait for the first offer. "Nope. Way more than I can afford" I say. His boss Alma comes over with the second offer. I say "Thanks, but no thanks. It just wasn't meant to be." The sales manager, Jimmy, walks over, as I was on my out, asking me what exactly I'd be happy with. I tell him. He accommodates me. After some phone banter with my wife, I pick her up so she can see what we're getting into. They worked with my not so good credit (650 FICA) and got me into a 2010 Prius with a 5.3% APR. The first offer went from $289/ mo w/ my $4,000 trade in + $1,900 down to $246/ mo and just my trade in as my down. They only gave me $2,700 for my trade in, but I really didn't mind as they did what I wanted them to do. It's still a little more than I wanted to pay, but "want" is usually a fantasy. There aren't too many places where you aren't going to get the usual rhetoric of buying a car. They want the most money they can get. I was honest on what I could afford and didn't really budge much. They made a few bucks and I got more than I anticipated. Djamil, Alma, and Jimmy did their job as sales people and, I feel, went above and beyond to meet my needs. Oh yeah, I also got three free oil changes and two free tanks of gas after my wife requested some perks to go along with the deal. :) Thanks, Keyes! read more

Disappointing Service Experience at Keyes Toyota of Van Nuys I recently attempted to schedule a service appointment at Keyes Toyota of Van Nuys, and unfortunately, my experience has been far from satisfactory. Despite my initial excitement about the prospect of receiving service from a well-known dealership, the series of frustrating encounters I've had with their service department have left me thoroughly disappointed. On Monday, I called the dealership at 5:15 pm to set up an appointment for the price, appointment and installation of a windshield camera. To my surprise, I was informed that the parts department was closed, and I needed to call back the next day. Accepting this inconvenience, I called again on Tuesday, only to be told that someone from the parts department would contact me. Regrettably, that call never came. Undeterred, I reached out on Wednesday, and after being transferred from service to another department, I was left with nothing but a voicemail. This lack of a direct point of contact further frustrated my attempts to schedule an appointment. Today, Thursday, I called once more, hoping to finally secure an appointment and obtain a price estimate. To my dismay, I was informed that I could not receive this information until a service specialist or advisor spoke with me. Unfortunately, none were available at the time, and I was assured that someone would contact me - this was 9:35 am. As of 4:00 pm, no one has reached out to me. In my latest attempt to address the ongoing issues, I called and requested to speak with a manager in the service department. To my disbelief, I was directed to yet another voicemail, this time belonging to a lady named Ruby. This string of unresponsiveness, unavailability, and broken promises has left me frustrated and questioning the professionalism of Keyes Toyota of Van Nuys. It is disappointing to encounter such disorganization and a lack of concern for customer needs, especially before setting foot in the dealership for any actual services. If you are considering this dealership for service, I strongly advise you to think twice. My experience suggests that Keyes Toyota of Van Nuys may not prioritize customer satisfaction or deliver on their promises when it comes to service appointments. read more

Well I am truly satisfied with my purchase at Keyes Toyota. I did a lot of shopping around and was to my last effort. I almost gave up and was ready to resign on continuing to ride the bus. Unlike prior experiences with Galpin Honda, Universal City Nissan and many other dealers I got no pressure AT ALL!! Everywhere I went they were trying to sell me what they wanted me to buy. I wasn't the one to choose they just kept choosing for me and trying to get me to come up with a down payment I could not afford. At Keyes I dealt with Edmond and Alfred they were wonderful people to work with they put my nerves at ease and gave me a great deal. Pleasant guys to deal with. No pressure AT ALL!!! Online I found a Toyota Corolla S 2010 with very low milege at a very descent price 14,488. I spoke to the receptionist at Keyes and scheduled an appt. to come in, that was at about 9a at about 11a, as I was getting ready to walk out of my apt. I told my son look that's my car :) and then the worst thing happens he says NICE mama too bad its sold!!!!!! I was in denial so I drove out to Keyes anyway. To my non surprise the car had just been sold a few minutes before. I was totally bumbed. As im mopping around Edmund tried to console me by showing me an LE model, but I wasn't having it. As we spoke I looked over and saw what I thought was the car I had seen online, so I ran to it and I said Edmund that's the car!!! He replies no hunn that's a 2013. sniff sniff. They said they felt horrible that the other car had been sold. They offered to get me the best deal possible if I saw anything else I liked. I told him well then what about that one. I wanted to see it and he said sure. A few hours later I am driving my 2013 Toyota Corolla S, Charcoal Grey, Black interior with blue stitching and am totally satisfied I didn't get to purchase the 2010, but I got a way better deal than I thought was possible. No previous owners and 7miles on it from the test drive. Beautiful!! Edmund did a great job in showing us the car and Alfred a wonderful job in making the deal. Thanks guys. P.S. Prospective buyers make sure you ask for Edmund and Alfred. Your referral name Julissa. P.S.S. Bake them some cookies after the deal (optional) lol read more

Im thinking that when you support something that you would get supported right back. Keys Toyota at this present time is not valuing as a customer 100 percent. In my dealings with Keys in totality, in retrospect....There has been some sort of shadiness and lack of proficiency involved in both contracts for the two vehicles that i purchased and leased. The first vehicle was a Toyota Highlander in which i loved driving the entire time that i was in posession of it. It was a lease and i returned it back to Toyota and then got into a 2019 Toyota Tundra Trd Sport 4x4. From the year 2019 to the present i have been going back and forth to the dealership for 10 or more times to fix various issues that i was having with the truck. All that i have been doing is paying my note every month and not complaining about anything until recently. Now i am having blockage of resolving an issue that has been present with my truck for the last 2 plus years. I am still waiting for a phone call that i am suppose to recieve the one of the higher ups in the service department. After dealing with this problem for so long, to have the manager tell me that he would contact me the next day and not call for the last 2 to 3 days is a dissapointment that needs no explaination. Im going to stop at this point. Im going to go pull up all of my service tickets and put them all in order. Im starting to not even want my truck any longer. My reasons for feeling this way has everything to do with the treatment that i have recieved in totality from the staff at Keys toyota. Its not all bad. Some staff treated me with respect and was very professional. There are others that need guidance, Training or is in need of a visit to the HR department. Soon i will post all of what has happened to me at Keys Toyota in its totality just to serve as a warning to others. My wish is for Keys Toyota to make right what they have done wrong to me. I will then share that information as well. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone is not accountable. read more

I'd give this place 0 stars if I could, but I suppose reporting their fraudulent behavior to the Better Business Bureau will serve as an equivalent option. My car was having issues starting one day so I took it to Keyes to have an inspection done. After about an hour, one of the employees came out and told me the problem was caused by a bad battery and a faulty starter. When I inquired about how much it would cost to fix this issue, I was told it would be around $800. This incident occurred 3 weeks after having taken my car into Toyota of Glendale for the 100,000 mile inspection, which cost me $1,400 for a so-called "total car inspection," and I was not about to fork over another $800 for something that should've been caught during the prior inspection. After telling them that I was going to have my car repaired elsewhere, I took it over to Rocky's Autobody in Burbank, where a friendly worker informed me that there was absolutely nothing wrong with my starter at all. I just had a bad battery that needed to be replaced (it was 2 years old and had been installed by Toyota of Glendale). I even asked him to run extra tests on my starter to be sure there was nothing wrong with it. Sure enough, my starter was perfectly fine, according to each of the graphs. Keyes Toyota was prepared to charge me an additional $700 for a service that was completely unnecessary. I am a young female college student, and I don't know a lot about cars and I don't have a lot of money to spare. Neither of these seemed to matter to this terrible business that will rip off every penny from you that they are able to. After contacting the BBB about this, they told me I would need to speak to a manager over at Keyes about the issue first, and I never received a return phone call from them. Seems to me like they weren't expecting me to catch them in their blatant lie, and didn't want to confront me to try and make it right. read more

I am writing an update to the 5 star review I left previously and changing it to a 4 star review. This has nothing to do with our particular salesman, who was extremely nice, attentive and helpful. However, once we had to meet with the "money" guy, the one who did the paperwork with us, he employed a bunch of "hard sell" tactics to get us to buy the car alarm for an extra $500 and their extended warranty. Even though we were not interested in the extended warranty, he said that he was "required" to go through the whole sales pitch. He asked which company we insured the car with and then showed us a paper that said they provide a 20% discount if we have a car alarm. They were trying to sell us one with their chip, which they said would make it impossible for anyone to hotwire the car. We went ahead and bought it, but then when I checked later with our insurance company, they said that we did NOT get a 20% discount...NOT EVEN CLOSE. So this was a FLAT OUT LIE. Of course, Keyes Toyota tells you that you can ONLY buy the alarm with the car right then and there at that moment. Otherwise it will cost twice as much. But they don't give you the opportunity to check with your car insurance company first to verify if what they are telling you about the discount is, in fact, true. Thus, if you are thinking of buying a car from them, know ahead of time that they will try to sell you an additional car alarm and extended warranty. Know the terms and the prices ahead of time, so that you are not fooled/tricked into buying something right there on the spot that you later may decide you did not need. Other than these more deceitful sales tactics, we had a good experience and we do like the car very much. read more

I recently had the pleasure of purchasing a car from Toyota Keyes, and I must say that the entire experience was outstanding. From the moment I walked through the doors, I was greeted with a warm and friendly atmosphere. Ali Akhavan, my salesperson, went above and beyond to ensure that I found the perfect car to meet my needs. He was incredibly knowledgeable, patient, and attentive throughout the entire process. Ali took the time to understand my preferences and guided me through various options, providing valuable insights along the way. His professionalism, honesty, and genuine care for his customers truly set him apart. Ali made the car-buying experience stress-free and enjoyable, which is something I deeply appreciate. He was always available to answer my questions and made sure I felt confident in my decision. Moreover, the dealership itself was top-notch. The staff members were friendly and accommodating, creating a welcoming environment. The showroom was clean and well-organized, and the entire team demonstrated a commitment to customer satisfaction. I highly recommend Toyota Keyes, and specifically, Ali Akhavan, to anyone looking to purchase a vehicle. If you're searching for a salesperson who will prioritize your needs and provide exceptional service, Ali is your go-to person. I couldn't be happier with my new car, and I owe it all to Ali's expertise and dedication. Thank you, Toyota Keyes, and a special thank you to Ali Akhavan for making my car-buying experience truly remarkable. I will definitely be recommending your dealership to my friends and my family. read more

I rarely ever leave reviews let alone bad ones. I was looking to purchase my lease over this past weekend, and I went in for my existing appointment with one of the sales employees. I had been in contact with this particular employee prior to my in-person appointment and he knew that I wanted to buy out my lease and told me exactly how much it would be making it seem like I just needed to sign at the dotted line when I came in. I went in for my appointment and immediately, he hits me with a "$1000 inspection charge" to buy my lease. Mind you, I'm purchasing in full so this just didn't make any sense to me. I tell him that I'm going to have to do my research on this because this doesn't sound right and he said "well this is the case for all of California." I'm SO glad I walked out of the Keyes Van Nuys dealership because when I did, I called Toyota North Hollywood and the kind sales representative said that if I was purchasing my lease in full, I can just contact Toyota Financial and not even bring my car into a dealer and there's no inspection fee or processing fee that way. I WISH the Keyes Van Nuys sales employee would have been kind enough or helpful enough to give me this information off the bat. I would've even dealt with dealership processing fees but some bogus inspection fee... ridiculous. I felt extorted. They tell you to not go into car dealerships alone as a woman but you would hope that wouldn't matter. You would hope that you would be treated with respect and not taken advantage of. Maybe the sales rep didn't know the policies or rules but is that much better? read more

I read some negative reviews here on the yelp and that is probably because these customers were helped by a wrong person. Rene Pascual is the oone and only guy to see at this dealership. This is my 2nd purchase there and he is the only rep I transact with when looking for a new car. We made a few trips there as usual and each and every time we stopped by, Rene was very professional and patient. As usual,he took us for a couple of test drives. He just told us to let him know any time we are ready to make a purchase. We never felt pressured as he took his time showing us around different options. He was very prompt in responding to our emails and phone calls. Every time we came in there, he never pushed us to make a sale just told us to take our time. Rene went out of his way and even beyond in order to accommodate us with questions and get the best deal possible. He worked out a deal for us that beat all competitors from Manhattan Beach all the way up to Thousand Oaks. He is not pushy and , never bothered us texts or emails like other dealers do. That's why we always come back for a stress-free experience. If you want to avoid annoying calls and texts from dealers. If you want an easy experience with best service and prices. I recommend everyone to see Rene at Keyes Toyota. I hope Bosco Petrov is reading this because Rene deserves recognition and promotion. He is the only reason we came all the way from Manhattan beach to make our 2nd purchase at this dealership. And guess what, we'll be back for more as long as Rene is there. read more

This review is strictly about the service department, not the sales team. I brought in a 2006 Highlander that we had paid $6000 in order to get it serviced and updated with all the most recent fluids. The Rep seemed nice enough and I relayed what we had paid and that we wanted to keep it updated with service. I also pointed out two minor issues (a seat and panel that needed tightening) and he said he would address both. He told me he'd need to keep the car overnight to properly diagnose and update. Two hours later, he called with an estimated $10,000 in repairs that he highly recommend. For a 18-year-old vehicle that was only worth $6000. He said it was an investment in the future of a car. No car is an investment. Certainly not one that's 18 years old. When I passed on the service, he did a 180 and immediately recommended $1,200 worth of fluids. When I returned the next day, I paid my bill and got my car. I immediately realized that the two things that Giovanni promised to look into (the seat and the panel) had remained unaddressed with zero explanation on the invoice or otherwise why they weren't addressed. This is the very reason why people distrust mechanics and service departments. We are putting a huge deal of faith and trust into someone wanting what's best for the car and the owner (while still earning a tremendous profit). It's an area that we rely on an expert to guide us through because of our general ignorance on what is truly needed for a vehicle. Find a local mechanic you trust. Stay away from Keyes Toyota. read more

Now I am only comparing my experience there with my experience at other CAR dealers. That's a whole different scale than the norm, as we all know. I actually had a good experience there due largely to a salesman "Bob" who seemed surprisingly relaxed about the whole thing. Of course there is always some pressure, but he was MUCH better than average. He was eager to sell a car, but was still relaxed about it and not so pushy as most car salesmen usually are. Amazingly, he was willing to admit when he didn't know something and then he would go and find the answer. Most salesmen just make up anything. I appreciated that extra effort and his unwillingness to just lie, as I have experienced with almost every car salesman. The manager "John" was really energetic and my experience with him was fine as well. Look- when I go in to buy a car I know what to expect and I'm never taken off guard or feel uncomfortable saying "no" when I don't want something. "Pressure" is really in your own mind and I don't waste my time worrying if the salesman or manager will be upset or unhappy with me. It is not a social call. They play their part and I play mine. I'm never rude, but i also don't care about being sensitive to their "feelings". believe me, you are one of a hundred people they are thinking about and they won't lose any sleep if you just say what you really feel or if you say you have to leave now and that's it. Anyway, I thought this particular salesman was much better than average. read more

i would totally not recommend getting your oil changed here unless you really understand cars or have another mechanic that you can consult with. most all dealers clean your car as a courtesy for your business and this should not be a reason why it is worth taking your car in for maintenance. the service dept @ keyes are a bunch of money gobbling hounds that will say anything to try and sell you on fixing something so they can increase their commission. took my wife's 03 highlander in for an oil change and after having to dodge a half dozen questions on unnecessary 'recommended services' when i dropped the car off, my service rep called me 3 hours later to try and sell me on the notion that the battery terminal and cables were corroded and needed to be replaced. being my wife's car i was very concerned and the guy quoted me at over $75 to repair it. something didn't seem right so i told him i would like to take it to a mechanic and he said that their work is guaranteed and that most mechanics don't guarantee their work. long story short, when i took it to a mechanic down the street, he opened the hood, and we found no signs of corrosion on the cables or the terminals. all there was some some buildup around the terminals that the mechanic cleaned for free with a wire brush terminal cleaner. after this, i have never taken my car back in there. it makes me wonder how many people these piranhas at keyes are bending over just to make a buck. very sad. read more

a week after they sold me. The seinna 2014 toyita that was sold to me with problems I went to the dealer to try to return it but they did not receive it. They didn't want to help me. they ignored me They told me that they couldn't do anything for me, they didn't pay me any attention and I told them that they could. Change the car for another because. I did not agree with this one because I had many problems and I told them that I could get a little more money but the sellers. I was told. that they did not have time that they were busy. that if I wanted to fix something that I would call the bank and that they could not. do anything for me and they told me. that there is no law in California for that, the law only protects them. and that a Latino would not come to tell them how to do their job. They humiliated me in front of my family. I was completely ignored by the vendors named Joan and Cesar. I stress. The problems of the car, which is abnormal noise in the engine, check engine light, doors with electrical faults, which is a danger because it does not close, it opens automatically. the control does not work I have to soak the doors to close. the tracera ouerya gets stuck when vrirla. what a fucking expensive lemon they sold me. and the vendors still tell me that if I left the expensive one there in the diler the gruga. lifts it up That fucking diler more shit and the sellers. also because they don't talk about the expensive problems they sell read more